cpers

02/10 Hand Eval:

NL2 - FR - 43s - weak flush
NL2 - FR - AJ - vs 3b maniac
NL2 - FR - KK - vs strong 4bet
NL2 - FR - KQ - bvb on 6-handed

02/11 Hand Eval:

NL2 - FR - A4 - weak two-pair on limped pot

02/12 Hand Eval:

NL2 - FR - J3 - thin value bet
NL2 - FR - QJs - min 3bet pot
NL2 - FR - KK - 3bet vs 5 villain

PartyGaming - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BB: $1.60 vp 64/pf 23/af 1.8/3b 18/ft3b 33/4b 30(3/10)/ft4b 33(1/3)/wtsd 38/wsd 47/ h 87
UTG: $2.15
UTG+1: $0.77
MP: $0.77
MP+1: $1.97
Hero (LP): $5.41
CO: $1.86
BTN: $2.00
SB: $5.00 vp 48/pf 27/af inf/3b 33/ft3b 0/4b 75(3/4)/ft4b 0(0/4)/wtsd 31/wsd 75/h 33

SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero has T♥ J♦

fold, UTG+1 calls $0.02, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.08, fold, fold, SB raises to $0.28, BB raises to $1.60 and is all-in, fold, fold, SB calls $1.32

Flop: ($3.30, 2 players) K♥ 8♥ 2♠

Turn: ($3.30, 2 players) 3♣

River: ($3.30, 2 players) A♦

SB shows K♦ Q♦ (One Pair, Kings) (Pre 50%, Flop 2%, Turn 0%)
BB shows 2♣ 2♦ (Three of a Kind, Twos) (Pre 50%, Flop 98%, Turn 100%)
BB wins $3.14

SB and BB are 3bet maniac, so I raise just to check if he would 3bet my raise or not.

BB stats probably aren't accurate, he's on heavy tilt after I get his stack. Then he managed to win to 200bb+ which he lost it to SB. After that they just go in 3bet/4bet battle with one another. So practically I couldn't raise, and since one of them is deep I couldn't play with any hand.

So my question is,

1# Should I avoid this table and leave or stay and take advantage of this situation? The reason I ask this because SB is almost as deep as mine. I'm not sure if it's still okay to go broke preflop when I'm deep and the villain also deep.

2# In previous hand eval, you said I could go broke with AJ against this type of opponent. But the situation is different now, the villain's not mid stack and most likely I have to go broke vs two players(1 deep). So I think even though in equity I could go broke with AJ, I don't think it's enough. Should I go broke with KK+ or just AA?

AJ:
       Equity     Win     Tie
BU     37.13%  34.34%   2.79% { AJs, AJo }
SB     28.75%  27.17%   1.58% { 55+, A2s+, K4s+, Q6s+, J7s+, T7s+, 98s, A5o+, K8o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o }
BB     34.12%  31.92%   2.20% { 66+, A5s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, A9o+, KTo+, QTo+ }

QQ:
       Equity     Win     Tie
BU     54.83%  54.37%   0.46% { QQ }
SB     20.85%  20.19%   0.66% { 55+, A2s+, K4s+, Q6s+, J7s+, T7s+, 98s, A5o+, K8o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o }
BB     24.32%  23.57%   0.76% { 66+, A5s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, A9o+, KTo+, QTo+ }

KK:
       Equity     Win     Tie
BU     62.60%  62.16%   0.44% { KK }
SB     17.71%  17.11%   0.60% { 55+, A2s+, K4s+, Q6s+, J7s+, T7s+, 98s, A5o+, K8o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o }
BB     19.69%  19.01%   0.68% { 66+, A5s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, A9o+, KTo+, QTo+ }

AA:
       Equity     Win     Tie
BU     73.71%  73.16%   0.55% { AA }
SB     13.07%  12.60%   0.47% { 55+, A2s+, K4s+, Q6s+, J7s+, T7s+, 98s, A5o+, K8o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o }
BB     13.22%  12.65%   0.57% { 66+, A5s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, A9o+, KTo+, QTo+ }

Originally posted by cpers
PartyGaming - $0.02 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BB: $1.60 vp 64/pf 23/af 1.8/3b 18/ft3b 33/4b 30(3/10)/ft4b 33(1/3)/wtsd 38/wsd 47/ h 87
UTG: $2.15
UTG+1: $0.77
MP: $0.77
MP+1: $1.97
Hero (LP): $5.41
CO: $1.86
BTN: $2.00
SB: $5.00 vp 48/pf 27/af inf/3b 33/ft3b 0/4b 75(3/4)/ft4b 0(0/4)/wtsd 31/wsd 75/h 33

SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero has T♥ J♦

fold, UTG+1 calls $0.02, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.08, fold, fold, SB raises to $0.28, BB raises to $1.60 and is all-in, fold, fold, SB calls $1.32

Flop: ($3.30, 2 players) K♥ 8♥ 2♠

Turn: ($3.30, 2 players) 3♣

River: ($3.30, 2 players) A♦

SB shows K♦ Q♦ (One Pair, Kings) (Pre 50%, Flop 2%, Turn 0%)
BB shows 2♣ 2♦ (Three of a Kind, Twos) (Pre 50%, Flop 98%, Turn 100%)
BB wins $3.14

SB and BB are 3bet maniac, so I raise just to check if he would 3bet my raise or not.

BB stats probably aren't accurate, he's on heavy tilt after I get his stack. Then he managed to win to 200bb+ which he lost it to SB. After that they just go in 3bet/4bet battle with one another. So practically I couldn't raise, and since one of them is deep I couldn't play with any hand.

So my question is,

1# Should I avoid this table and leave or stay and take advantage of this situation? The reason I ask this because SB is almost as deep as mine. I'm not sure if it's still okay to go broke preflop when I'm deep and the villain also deep.

2# In previous hand eval, you said I could go broke with AJ against this type of opponent. But the situation is different now, the villain's not mid stack and most likely I have to go broke vs two players(1 deep). So I think even though in equity I could go broke with AJ, I don't think it's enough. Should I go broke with KK+ or just AA?

AJ:
       Equity     Win     Tie
BU     37.13%  34.34%   2.79% { AJs, AJo }
SB     28.75%  27.17%   1.58% { 55+, A2s+, K4s+, Q6s+, J7s+, T7s+, 98s, A5o+, K8o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o }
BB     34.12%  31.92%   2.20% { 66+, A5s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, A9o+, KTo+, QTo+ }

QQ:
       Equity     Win     Tie
BU     54.83%  54.37%   0.46% { QQ }
SB     20.85%  20.19%   0.66% { 55+, A2s+, K4s+, Q6s+, J7s+, T7s+, 98s, A5o+, K8o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o }
BB     24.32%  23.57%   0.76% { 66+, A5s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, A9o+, KTo+, QTo+ }

KK:
       Equity     Win     Tie
BU     62.60%  62.16%   0.44% { KK }
SB     17.71%  17.11%   0.60% { 55+, A2s+, K4s+, Q6s+, J7s+, T7s+, 98s, A5o+, K8o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o }
BB     19.69%  19.01%   0.68% { 66+, A5s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, A9o+, KTo+, QTo+ }

AA:
       Equity     Win     Tie
BU     73.71%  73.16%   0.55% { AA }
SB     13.07%  12.60%   0.47% { 55+, A2s+, K4s+, Q6s+, J7s+, T7s+, 98s, A5o+, K8o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o }
BB     13.22%  12.65%   0.57% { 66+, A5s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, A9o+, KTo+, QTo+ }

erase this whole hand and just look at this sentence you wrote:
"SB and BB are 3bet maniac, so I raise just to check if he would 3bet my raise or not."

Then dont raise such weak hands against such loose opponents. you dont plan on calling the 3bet anyways clearly, so why even make the raise then if you know theyve been 3betting like maniac. just start 4 betting weaker hands all in like AK and JJ, and maybe slowplay IP hands like AA and KK, but shove them when OOP.

stop fooling yourself thinking a play like that is actually good. because you will just leak big $ to them in the long run by bringing in raises with such horrible hands. They might even 3 bet you with worse, and they could easily have AT or JQ and have you completely dominated if they just call your raise preflop. you both hit top pair on flop and thats all she wrote.

Magic

Originally posted by ilovemagic
erase this whole hand and just look at this sentence you wrote:
"SB and BB are 3bet maniac, so I raise just to check if he would 3bet my raise or not."

Then dont raise such weak hands against such loose opponents. you dont plan on calling the 3bet anyways clearly, so why even make the raise then if you know theyve been 3betting like maniac. just start 4 betting weaker hands all in like AK and JJ, and maybe slowplay IP hands like AA and KK, but shove them when OOP.

stop fooling yourself thinking a play like that is actually good. because you will just leak big $ to them in the long run by bringing in raises with such horrible hands. They might even 3 bet you with worse, and they could easily have AT or JQ and have you completely dominated if they just call your raise preflop. you both hit top pair on flop and thats all she wrote.

Magic

I know your point there, and you're probably right. But I just need to know about SB because at the time of this hand his sample is only 15 - so other than he 3bets a lot with BB - which on tilt, I know nothing about this guy and he's the one keeping me from playing because he's deep. Why with bad hands? Because if I raise with good hands like AQ+, I might be tempted to go broke and it really could happen - it's my worst leak.

And as I couldn't raise anymore, and also because isolating and having initiative is where my dollar come from I leave this table 18 hands later.

PS: Erase what hand? Your post or my post? I couldn't edit your post. You need to edit yourself.

lol. i meant just look at your possibly distorted thinking and change it so your not spewing chips at your opponents trying to find out how they play. to know how an opponent plays you have to just watch the table and exploit what you see them doing wrong.

if you get "married" to hands, I think you need to start posting hands in the hand evaluation forums and do some more analysing because you sound like a losing player. You will just keep losing until you learn how to play winning poker. No offence. I needed to hear this from many people before realizing it was time to step up and start spending most of my time analyzing and studying. Start by reading these articles. not just once, but until you get a good understanding of what they REALLY mean.

this is the beginners course , here you will find helpful info as well as lots of support from proven winners at the micro stakes. i might be dunking my head under water by telling you to do this work, but it helped me so it can help anyone lol! Start by making a thread in the "locker room", the thread must be titled cpers. Here you will post homework, and other things that the coaches can look at and evaluate.

You can now start with your 1st Lesson:
Lesson #1

The whole course plan:
Overview of Beginners Course

You're tilting me here. Just kidding, none taken.

I've done the course up till lesson 6, in fact this thread is in the locker room. And I do have plans reading the articles again, since I don't have access with lesson 7's articles. But right now, I'm trying to change my styles because it's not what everyone suggest I should do on NL2. I think I started to get a grasp of it, now my showdown winning is going up instead of my non-showdown winning. Still make some mistakes like the one above, but improving (I hope)

Thats great to hear you are serious about the game! I didn't want to sound as insulting as I did to your intelligence as I did. I just want you to know I don't sugar coat anything and when I spot an obvious leak like raising light vs a donk is usually a fucking horrible decision. They will constantly outplay you if your playing right into their strategy of raise with any 2. And you will end up on tilt. Nuff said You still stuck at NL2 after all that learning? I definately would advise you connect with veriz and start listening to everything he says.

I post links to my hand because we're supposed to do that. at least that's what I thought.

Nope, you ain't supposed to do that. You can continue now without linking them. ♦

And also would be nice if you posted those kind of questions to Hand Evaluation which are below.

1# Should I avoid this table and leave or stay and take advantage of this situation? The reason I ask this because SB is almost as deep as mine. I'm not sure if it's still okay to go broke preflop when I'm deep and the villain also deep.

If you think you can beat the postflop game enough then of course you can stay.

2# In previous hand eval, you said I could go broke with AJ against this type of opponent. But the situation is different now, the villain's not mid stack and most likely I have to go broke vs two players(1 deep). So I think even though in equity I could go broke with AJ, I don't think it's enough. Should I go broke with KK+ or just AA?

Most likely going in multiway pot with very strong range broke at first.

Nope, you ain't supposed to do that. You can continue now without linking them. ♦

And also would be nice if you posted those kind of questions to Hand Evaluation which are below.
OK!

If you think you can beat the postflop game enough then of course you can stay.
I don't think postflop skill has anything to do with it. There are two 3bet maniac(4bet and so on), the only think we could go postflop is if we limp, since those two will limp too or if one of them decide to fold and we call the other's 3bet.

not much left i can say to you until you either learn more about your leaks, and how to fix them, or lose enough with these bad decisions to realize you need to learn more. one of these options will come first most often. Can you guess which one it is ? ♦

happy camping!
Magic

Originally posted by ilovemagic
not much left i can say to you until you either learn more about your leaks, and how to fix them, or lose enough with these bad decisions to realize you need to learn more. one of these options will come first most often. Can you guess which one it is ? ♦

happy camping!
Magic

Broke of course. You going camping? Nice

hehehe ur funny. I want you to know that this is my experience:

step one- lose a shitload of $$$ thinking i know how to play winning poker.

step 2- realize this is only going to get worse as time goes on until something changes

step 3- realized how much $$ there is to be made in texas holdem, and how others on this very website have won at the stakes im playing at over a large sample size

step 4- started doing whatever veriz suggested i do

step 5- plugged my biggest leaks first, and then started working on each other one as i found them to be a problem

step 6- continually work to improve my game and listen to whatever the coach (veriz) says to do as best i can

= $90 profit in about 6K hands at NL5
=havent gone on tilt in a while, implementing stop loss now when shit hits the fan

= im a happy camper

good luck man!

step one- lose a shitload of $$$ thinking i know how to play winning poker.

Done this Though it's not my money since I've never deposited any money.

step 2- realize this is only going to get worse as time goes on until something changes

Yeah I know this, every break-even player will lose at some point.

step 3- realized how much $$ there is to be made in texas holdem, and how others on this very website have won at the stakes im playing at over a large sample size

This is probably my biggest leaks. Money is never a concern for me (not saying that I'm rich), it's just never been my goal playing poker(including moving up). Just realize you have to have a goal to win in poker, so my goal as of this year is to move up a limit, rather than playing to learn about the game.

step 4- started doing whatever veriz suggested i do

step 5- plugged my biggest leaks first, and then started working on each other one as i found them to be a problem

step 6- continually work to improve my game and listen to whatever the coach (veriz) says to do as best i can

Doing it, but I guess I became too spoiled. I need to change my learning style to 50% self study(analyzing and finding the answers myself), 50% reading the articles, etc.

Congrats on your win
I envy you, not because you win but you have a lot more motivation and effort than I do. I've seen your blog and locker, it's full of information it shows how much of your effort is.

Originally posted by cpers

step one- lose a shitload of $$$ thinking i know how to play winning poker.

Done this Though it's not my money since I've never deposited any money.

step 2- realize this is only going to get worse as time goes on until something changes

Yeah I know this, every break-even player will lose at some point.

step 3- realized how much $$ there is to be made in texas holdem, and how others on this very website have won at the stakes im playing at over a large sample size

This is probably my biggest leaks. Money is never a concern for me (not saying that I'm rich), it's just never been my goal playing poker(including moving up). Just realize you have to have a goal to win in poker, so my goal as of this year is to move up a limit, rather than playing to learn about the game.

step 4- started doing whatever veriz suggested i do

step 5- plugged my biggest leaks first, and then started working on each other one as i found them to be a problem

step 6- continually work to improve my game and listen to whatever the coach (veriz) says to do as best i can

Doing it, but I guess I became too spoiled. I need to change my learning style to 50% self study(analyzing and finding the answers myself), 50% reading the articles, etc.

Congrats on your win
I envy you, not because you win but you have a lot more motivation and effort than I do. I've seen your blog and locker, it's full of information it shows how much of your effort is.

Nice reply man! And thanks for the kind words! sometimes I think everyone should think the same as me and thats one of my character flaws I'm trying to get rid of. What are you looking to get out of poker in the long run, other then just moving up a limit ? what are some of your goals on how to get to the next limit? Coaching sessions? strategy articles/videos? posting hands in the eval. forum?

the ideas you said you needed to do are good too ♠_biggrin:

how do you handle tilt? that was my biggest leak and is always looming, waiting for me , ready to strike at any given moment on the tables. But I'm just being more and more prepared everyday for it by checking my emotion level and using stop loss if shit hits the fan.

how serious are you about the game and do you plan on using poker as 1) a secondary source of income or 2) main career like myself, until i make enough to pursue medical career or 3) just entertainment or 4)a mix of options 1 and 3?

thanks again!
you have a good attitude when i give you constructive critiscism. it will take you far in this game! very humble person you are ♠_biggrin:

Magic
_____________________________________________________________________

Nice reply man! And thanks for the kind words! sometimes I think everyone should think the same as me and thats one of my character flaws I'm trying to get rid of. What are you looking to get out of poker in the long run, other then just moving up a limit ? what are some of your goals on how to get to the next limit? Coaching sessions? strategy articles/videos? posting hands in the eval. forum?

Right now, I'm trying to make a note of all my bad play on daily basis. So I'd notice if I make the same bad play over and over again.

I always want to see the coaching sessions, unfortunately most of the sessions are past midnight at my time so it's out of the question. So my plan right now is just to read articles and making summary of it plus posting hands.

how do you handle tilt? that was my biggest leak and is always looming, waiting for me , ready to strike at any given moment on the tables. But I'm just being more and more prepared everyday for it by checking my emotion level and using stop loss if shit hits the fan.

My worst enemy too :f_biggrin:. The most effective way for me is to play one table at a time, and every time I win/lose some I change to another table. But I don't like doing it like this since it's not improving my skills if I'm doing it like this. I feel like I'm running away from the problem if I keep doing it.

So right now, I only use stop loss limit, 1 - 3 BI. And stop playing when I have won 2-3 BI because I usually go on tilt if I lost what I have won.

Also another kind of tilt that I have is when I lost big at the start of a session, it's hard stop playing because I've been waiting for it all days since I could only play +/- 200 hands a day.

how serious are you about the game and do you plan on using poker as 1) a secondary source of income or 2) main career like myself, until i make enough to pursue medical career or 3) just entertainment or 4)a mix of options 1 and 3?

Compared to yours, probably not to serious. At this moment it's just for entertainment or studying (I'm a studying junkie ), but in the future if I could go to NL100 maybe I might decide to be a pro or secondary income.

Thanks and good luck on your pursuit of medical career.

Notes:
I only experimented with KK+ and it was based on 29000 samples (open raise), and 21000 samples (open limp). And since I only open limp some of the hand where I think it could be raised by other aggressive players so it's not always and the data might be less accurate. Plus I played on 9-max so there's only 2 UTG's seats.

KK+ Open Raise/Open Limp from UTG:
- Open limping from UTG seems to be a lot more profitable because there's a lot more action because they don't consider our hand to be that strong when we open limp them.
- While when we open raise from UTG, there's hardly any action at all except for villain going for set value.
- Almost 50% of our open raised hands from UTG made all the villains folded preflop right away.
- Open limp/raise shows a lot of strength and could be read easily, however there's still some villain who would still go broke preflop when we do this, especially mid-stackers.
- Open Limp Preflop All-in: 3/12, Open Raise Preflop All-in 1/19.
- I tend to overplayed JJ-99 when I open raised them, and underplayed KK+ postflop.

Conclusion:
- I'd rather open raise KK+ as you suggested before but the data shows the opposite, so I'm a bit at a loss here. Maybe if I loosen up my UTG range it would invites more action whenever I open raise them?
- I should learn more about how to play pairs postflop so I don't overplayed/underplayed them, check them on hand evaluation forum.

Question:
- What do you think about all of this data? Do you think what this data shows also true in the long run, that there's a lot more people know about position these days so they rather fold when someone open raise from UTG?
- What do you think about my suggestion to loosen up my open range (UTG)? Do you think it would invite more action to the hands if I do so?
- I usually open from UTG with (99+, AJ+), is this too tight? I'm thinking about using vonki's range from weekly freebie (22+, AJ+, KQ), what do you think about this? Would it invite more action to the hands?
- Any suggestion?

Graph:

good stuff, thanks for sharing!

One thing that works for me in analysing my play has been the elephant. you can grab any hand during a session for future analysis so u can keep playing the session. its great for many other reasons as well. its free. do you have it?

about you switching tables so much. I used to do that too, until i realized why would i leave if theres a bad player at the table whos gonna give me all their money??

the other side of that is if there arent any "bad" players at the table and the games a bit tough after about 3 or 4 rounds of blinds, i take my money elsewhere, even if ive won a small pot or 2. theres soooooo many micro tables to choose one, and theres always gonna be a mega fish if you keep table selecting in mind. once they lose all their money or most of it, you can just leave and find another fish.

AND remember this. If you sit at the table for a half hour and still cant spot the fish, you are the fish

once u get comfortable playing your style and know it inside and out enough to make standard decisions quickly, like starting hand selection and table positioning and raise/bet sizing, you can open up a second table. but dont do it until you do all those suggested things first

Magic

Originally posted by ilovemagic
One thing that works for me in analysing my play has been the elephant. you can grab any hand during a session for future analysis so u can keep playing the session. its great for many other reasons as well. its free. do you have it?

Yup I have it, but I don't use it. I use poker tracker, so it's a lot better for analyzing your hand. The last time I check elephant could only filter based on holecard not action, etc.

Read it somewhere in the forum about tablescan turbo, you might want to give it a try. I tried it today, it actually pretty good. Plus it's free while it's still in beta phase. Why don't you try it. And it could read stats from hem or PT database, so you might as well try hem or PT's free version just to make database for the stats.