Matt Grinding... NLSH Cash?; have a look at my stats

Do not, i repeat, do not use 50 bi's rule on Betfair!
Make sure you start with 100. Swings are really brutal due to crazy blind levels and unheard reg infestation.
Traffic is excellent, best after stars by far and rb is also very nice.

Considering we are on learning path (some more than others, cuz we all are ) do you still recommend it or should we choose more fishier room?

Originally posted by Gerovit
Do not, i repeat, do not use 50 bi's rule on Betfair!
Make sure you start with 100. Swings are really brutal due to crazy blind levels and unheard reg infestation.
Traffic is excellent, best after stars by far and rb is also very nice.

all right... that's valuable advice mate. Thanks. I'll have to start at $3s then... So the blind levels rise very quickly, do they? It's like that on Party too, though, and I've played 1500+ games on there. How bad is it?

Reg infestation... eww. I'll crush them by profiling (looking over their hands) the more frequent players...

UPDATE

A lot happened lately!

So first of all I suffered an ugly downswing on the $3 level:

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It didn't feel nice but at the same time I didn't feel my game was affected in any way. It was a good lesson, I was reminded just how swingy it can get with those babies; I didn't exactly get to feel that up to this point, if you look at my graphs you'll see Miss Variance treated me pretty well so far!

The downswing cost me so much I had to drop to 1s!
The last two days on the level:

I need to improve if it comes to shoving with 3-5BBs. Thanks to Rob (kolonel) I started doing it a lot wider, but I'm still not sure about few of those hands I pushed recently. They're going on the hand evaluation forums. I'm thinking, on the lowest levels (like the $1 level) is it profitable at all? We do it because we want to take advantage of the fold equity that we would otherwise lose once the blinds hit us. But on these levels there's no fold equity, these guys are calling the 3-5bbs with J7s or T8o. Wouldn't this make that play (shoving wide when short) -EV?

Month of February:

I generally feel I've improved a lot lately. In terms of mindset, calling/shoving ranges, understanding of dynamics between different stack sizes... I'm getting better and I feel it. Chenny's vids, great sweats with Kolonel, session reviews all have a part in it!

Due to the downer I can't move to BetFair yet. Need to build a bankroll first to be able to kick start on their $3 level. Guess I'd be moving there in a month after I scoop some value off the Gladiator promotion (the $35 dollars) and the Party Regs that I see through due to the vast number of hands I have on them. ♠_evil:

Best,
Matt

PS. Next we're taking a look at a Party Regular (more like a zombie, played 15k games) and answering a few pressing questions about his graphs!!

Hit a downswing on the 3s which turned out to be so severe that I had to drop to 1s! On that level I've hit another one!

That's what's been going on since my last update:

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After some contemplation I've come up with a worrying truth - majority of the SNGs I play are super turbos. Sick swings!

The problem is that slower games - Turbos (called "Speed" on Party) - have poorer traffic and most of the games going are Super Turbos... Worse yet, all there is on the $1 level are SuperTurbos! Not to helpful given I want to grind out a decent bankroll (of, say, around $300) to be able to hit BetFair's 3s and then 5s...

I was thinking of getting a staking deal... there's a lot to think through in regards to this. Where could I do it? How much BI? What stake? Who would be ready to invest in me?

But never mind this. While all of this is going on I'm still improving and just posted the daily maximum amount of hands on the Eval Forums. With addition to that I've reviewed some hands myself and tried to come up with answers. That's one of them:

Shortstacked push

BB is a certain Reg, BTN & CO suspected Regs.

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $800(BB) Replayer
SB ($2,215)
BB ($6,815)
UTG ($4,150)
Hero ($1,920)
CO ($1,470)
BTN ($3,430)

BB antes $25
BTN antes $25
UTG antes $25
SB antes $25
Hero antes $25
CO antes $25

Dealt to Hero 9♦ 7♥

fold, Hero raises to $1,895 (AI), fold, fold, fold, BB calls $1,095

FLOP ($4,340) 5♠ T♣ 8♣

TURN ($4,340) 5♠ T♣ 8♣ 5♥

RIVER ($4,340) 5♠ T♣ 8♣ 5♥ 3♣

BB shows K♦ 4♣
(Pre 56%, Flop 51.6%, Turn 68.2%)

Hero shows 9♦ 7♥
(Pre 44%, Flop 48.4%, Turn 31.8%)

BB wins $4,340

EDIT: See the brilliant post by Nibbana (below) for analysis, I've made a few stupid mistakes with it

Recent improvements to my game:
much better shoving ranges when short (less than 7bbs)
better plays with low pockets pre
involvement of Hold'em Resources into my hand reviews
increased aggression in middle stage with hands like 99, TT, JJ against the right opponents
good reads on Regs
spotting of good situs to steal a limped pot post-flop and shove over a limp pre
much better feel for bubble situations

What still needs work:
my HU game
my 3handed opening and open/calling ranges
some videos still to be watched out there!
mindset. downswings don't exist! (Hilger & Taylor in "The Poker Mindset")
calling ranges for short stack play - 8bbs and less!

Best,
Matt

PS. We're supposed to look at a weird Party Poker Reg, weren't we... His screen-name is Walld0rf, he played zillions of tourneys and despite his plays looking very solid in my hand reviews (got 3k+ hands on him), his graph looks very very swingy and his bottom line is far from impressive. You can look him up on SharkScope.

I'm wondering - is it merely a fate of a Super-Turbo player?
Or perhaps he's got major leaks (like tilt?)

Hello and good luck with ur BR building. i play SnGs too @PokerStars.

Checked that guy's sharkscope and it shows me 18K games and -660$ profit.
wtf. This is just SICK! after 18K games. i feel really sorry for this dude

Originally posted by inlovewithamsterdam
After some contemplation I've come up with a worrying truth - majority of the SNGs I play are super turbos. Sick swings!

Welcome to my world ! Remember what I posted about playing break even though, it's going to give you some crazy results in the short term. On your last graph the redline is BE which could be down to other forms of variance (ie long runs of poor cards or many setup/cooler situations) or could be something to do with your play. It's not worth worrying about over such a small sample as I'm sure you're looking at all aspects of your game from what I've read so far.

I personally didn't care much (steep increases) for the structure on Party, it gets shallow really quickly and even if your early game is solid and you build a stack you can find yourself flipping on the bubble too often. Pacific (888/WSOP) & Stars both have nice structures if you want to play the faster games.

Originally posted by inlovewithamsterdam
Given the players are likely to call wider than they should, I spose we can tweak the range so that it's strongest against pockets and broadway cards - most likely hands of the callers. 22+ A2s+ A7o+ K6s+ KTo+ Q8s+ QTo+ J8s+ T8s+. I've substracted low suited connectors and JTo. Thoughts?

What this hand illustrates is the enormous importance of suitedness and connectedness - something I keep forgetting about! We're not shoving K9o here but we're happily sticking it in with T8s!!

Two things I noticed about your hand - the Nash analysis has the blind level wrong (100/200 instead of 400/800) - Here is the right Link. The other thing is that this is a situation that ICM struggles to deal with in general as there is no emphasis on the fact that you will be hit with the BB in 2 hands and forced to call any raise anyway. ICM essentially gives you a chance of winning purely based on the % of the chips you have, it is a static snapshot of the SNG in this particular hand with no consideration for what will happen in the following hand/orbit etc. SNG Solver has attempted to look at this problem and whilst I wouldn't recommend buying it in it's current state, you can get a 30 day trial for free and learn a lot during this time. For this hand Solver actually recommends pushing LESS than the ICM Nash calculator, probably because you are getting called so often by the BB that it's better to try and catch a better hand next time.

ICM Nash - UTG+1 20.2%, 55+ A3s+ A7o+ K8s+ KTo+ QTs+ QJo JTs
SNG Solver - UTG+1 16.6% 55+ A4s+ A8o+ KTs+ KQo

The interesting thing comes if we swap positions with UTG but keep the same stack

ICM Nash - UTG 16.6%, 55+ A4s+ A9o+ K9s+ KTo+ QTs+
SNG Solver - UTG 33.0% 22+ Ax K5s+ K9o+ Q8s+ QTo+ J8s+ JTo T8s+ 97s+ 87s 76s

This reflects what most good players will tell you, that your stack and situation are so desperate there is a definite need to shove looser than ICM suggests.

If you want to discuss any of this stuff PM me here and I'll add you on skype.

Cheers,
nibbana

First of all thanks for the response, I'm very thankful for your input!

Originally posted by nibbana
Welcome to my world ! Remember what I posted about playing break even though, it's going to give you some crazy results in the short term. On your last graph the redline is BE which could be down to other forms of variance (ie long runs of poor cards or many setup/cooler situations) or could be something to do with your play. It's not worth worrying about over such a small sample as I'm sure you're looking at all aspects of your game from what I've read so far.

I'm playing the $1 level at the moment, I regularly see players open-shove 30+bbs with hands like 66, Q7o, cold-call raises pre-flop for 1/3 of their stack with 56s etc. What's more I regularly review my hands and always come up with some (even if minor) improvements. My point is I highly doubt my game's break even on this level.

I do recall plenty of set-ups in that sample. I felt as if I always pushed into the top of their range, got a few crazy post-flop hands too, like straight beaten by a fullhouse, etc. So this is most likely the the source of the BE red line - like you said.

Originally posted by nibbana
I personally didn't care much (steep increases) for the structure on Party, it gets shallow really quickly and even if your early game is solid and you build a stack you can find yourself flipping on the bubble too often. Pacific (888/WSOP) & Stars both have nice structures if you want to play the faster games.

That's interesting. Never looked at it that way. The $6 games on Party do have a slightly different structure, but not sure if it makes any actual difference.

I was planning on moving to BetFair (was recommended it in the "Perfect Room for you" thread - for its traffic)... Any thoughts on their structure?

I will certainly consider Pacific; I'm slightly reluctant to go on Stars despite their gorgeous traffic as I fear considerable Reg infestation on the $7 and $15 (the levels that I want to end up playing).

Originally posted by nibbana
Two things I noticed about your hand - the Nash analysis has the blind level wrong (100/200 instead of 400/800) - Here is the right Link. The other thing is that this is a situation that ICM struggles to deal with in general as there is no emphasis on the fact that you will be hit with the BB in 2 hands and forced to call any raise anyway. ICM essentially gives you a chance of winning purely based on the % of the chips you have, it is a static snapshot of the SNG in this particular hand with no consideration for what will happen in the following hand/orbit etc. SNG Solver has attempted to look at this problem and whilst I wouldn't recommend buying it in it's current state, you can get a 30 day trial for free and learn a lot during this time. For this hand Solver actually recommends pushing LESS than the ICM Nash calculator, probably because you are getting called so often by the BB that it's better to try and catch a better hand next time.

ICM Nash - UTG+1 20.2%, 55+ A3s+ A7o+ K8s+ KTo+ QTs+ QJo JTs
SNG Solver - UTG+1 16.6% 55+ A4s+ A8o+ KTs+ KQo

The interesting thing comes if we swap positions with UTG but keep the same stack

ICM Nash - UTG 16.6%, 55+ A4s+ A9o+ K9s+ KTo+ QTs+
SNG Solver - UTG 33.0% 22+ Ax K5s+ K9o+ Q8s+ QTo+ J8s+ JTo T8s+ 97s+ 87s 76s

This reflects what most good players will tell you, that your stack and situation are so desperate there is a definite need to shove looser than ICM suggests.

If you want to discuss any of this stuff PM me here and I'll add you on skype.

Cheers,
nibbana

That's priceless mate! Thanks a lot for all the great info. Never heard of SNG Solver, will defo make good use of it. The problem with the ICM (it capturing a given moment and ignoring context) - I've read up on it a few times but for some reason it never stuck in my head. Your explanations did the job, that's brilliant mate!

Sure I'll be up for some discussion of skype, I'll PM you right away.

Cheers again mate!!
Matt

Originally posted by k4ileb
Hello and good luck with ur BR building. i play SnGs too @PokerStars.

Checked that guy's sharkscope and it shows me 18K games and -660$ profit.
wtf. This is just SICK! after 18K games. i feel really sorry for this dude

Hi mate thanks! Start your own blog mate so I can follow & support you in your journey! Perhaps we could even have some sessions together. I'll add you.

Yes the Reg's graphs are a tad sick, aren't they! I reckon he's got serious tilt issues because I don't see how you can play well and have a graph like this after 18k games... Unless he's the unluckiest bastard in the universe and those Super Turbos are giving him a severe beating.

Yo,

i'm on 888 right now and i must say althou i hate traffic at 5$, lower limits are still OK and a lot of fishes. High rake and poor rake back thou, but first deposit bonus is easy to clear with decent amount of volume.

I started there and i'd recommend it only for fast low limit BR building. Another thing that might help you more is that there are played only normal and some turbo sng, so swings are more "normal" than with super turbos... On the other hand, it's gonna take a lot more time to make a decent volume.

Originally posted by inlovewithamsterdam

Hi mate thanks! Start your own blog mate so I can follow & support you in your journey! Perhaps we could even have some sessions together. I'll add you.

Yes the Reg's graphs are a tad sick, aren't they! I reckon he's got serious tilt issues because I don't see how you can play well and have a graph like this after 18k games... Unless he's the unluckiest bastard in the universe and those Super Turbos are giving him a severe beating.

Ofcourse sir, i'll add you. Looking forward for sweating.

Originally posted by RovarTry

Yo,

i'm on 888 right now and i must say althou i hate traffic at 5$, lower limits are still OK and a lot of fishes. High rake and poor rake back thou, but first deposit bonus is easy to clear with decent amount of volume.

I started there and i'd recommend it only for fast low limit BR building. Another thing that might help you more is that there are played only normal and some turbo sng, so swings are more "normal" than with super turbos... On the other hand, it's gonna take a lot more time to make a decent volume.

as inlovewithamsterdam, i was considering moving to betfair. i play 1.5$ BI at stars with 100$BR. (ofc normal speed, i hate turbos' variance at this limit etc). so should i consider 888 too ? i'm reading your blog too and you seem to do well. how's the traffic ? i usually 8-10 table those. so i want good traffic

@RovarTry
Thanks for the info. You say 888 is good for BR building, as there's good traffic and lots of fishes. This is exactly what I'm looking for at the moment. As to the volume problems, I could mix the Normals with the Turbos on 888 and thus accelerate the tempo of BR Building at least slightly... I'll think about it for sure. Thanks for the heads-up mate.

@k4ileb
I play on Party at the moment, so no info on 888 (I think you mistakenly assumed I play 888). But there has been some info provided recently by contributors to this blog, so you can read what's here and potentially ask them for further info. If you need any advice on Party, shoot! I've got a fair bit of experience on there.

Best of luck to both,
Matt

Was just wondering what the rake was like on party in these low buy in supers, I know edges are pretty low in supers at the best of times. I do remember when I played on party the rake was preety huge.

OK to summarize it:

888:

Bad:

High rake and poor rake back
Only max 8 tables at once
no button adjustment for betting sizes
you can register at only one table per BI, then you have to wait until this fills up and then register at another one
very poor traffic at $5 and above (sometimes i have to wait longer than 15 min to fire up second table)
most action is on normal speed
no table selection

Good:

I got $10 insta bonus and additional $90 bonus for first depositors (i deposited $90) - i'll clear this within this month playing 400-450 sngs per month
better traffic at $1 + 0.20 and $2.5 + 0.40 ( you've got even $0.50 + 0.10 )
few regs that are easily spotted and even they are not that good

Besides that you have DON's at 2.50 + 0.25 if you're interested. And couple of triple ups and 18.mens, but can't say much about traffic.

So, even there is a lot more negative than positive about that room, i'm still saying that as long as you want to build low BR and leave the site afterwards, this is still decent room.

Originally posted by ipeaceonu
Was just wondering what the rake was like on party in these low buy in supers, I know edges are pretty low in supers at the best of times. I do remember when I played on party the rake was preety huge.

Rake on the $1 level is 15%, but on $3, $6 it's 10%. On $11 I think it's 10%, too, but I'm not entirely sure.

Originally posted by RovarTry
OK to summarize it:

888:

Bad:

High rake and poor rake back
Only max 8 tables at once
no button adjustment for betting sizes
you can register at only one table per BI, then you have to wait until this fills up and then register at another one
very poor traffic at $5 and above (sometimes i have to wait longer than 15 min to fire up second table)
most action is on normal speed
no table selection

Good:

I got $10 insta bonus and additional $90 bonus for first depositors (i deposited $90) - i'll clear this within this month playing 400-450 sngs per month
better traffic at $1 + 0.20 and $2.5 + 0.40 ( you've got even $0.50 + 0.10 )
few regs that are easily spotted and even they are not that good

Besides that you have DON's at 2.50 + 0.25 if you're interested. And couple of triple ups and 18.mens, but can't say much about traffic.

So, even there is a lot more negative than positive about that room, i'm still saying that as long as you want to build low BR and leave the site afterwards, this is still decent room.

That is an awesome analysis. Big thanks matey. I'll think about it, the software not allowing for more than 8 tables or being forced to wait for a table to fill up is a BIG MINUS, though...

Thanks again. GL!

Heh, yeah. Looking at your posted hands, most of them are like 600+ BB and still 5 players in...

At 888 i think i played only one table with 800 bb and even that one was 3 handed. So you've got more room for developing post flop game. I remember that just by doing nothing or playing really tight at $1 BI you're almost in the bubble with decent stack left. And considering you're now almost a master in pushing/folding phase you should have no problem from there

@inlovewithamsterdam yeap. i was mistaken RovarTry plays there.

So about 888. i play normals, i need fish to build my BR. i usually play 8-10 tables at once so 8 is nice, although i could more. maybe i will move my HUGE 100$ BR there!

Where are you, mate? What's going on? I see you posted some hands, so you're still there! Post some update, so we can see how you doing...

Originally posted by RovarTry
Where are you, mate? What's going on? I see you posted some hands, so you're still there! Post some update, so we can see how you doing...

thanks for your interest mate! an update is coming in like 3-4 days. Whole lotta things going on right now, large majority outside of the poker dimension of my life though!

Ditched Party, got a small bankroll on Stars and playing them $1.5 level FR SNGs! It's not like i didn't know this but soft is so much better, gaming is a whole different experience on there... but i'm bind to party for the bonus. will need to check how much i can get out of it till the end of the month. Was supposed to be 35 dollars in march but since that downer all the plans went to shit...

whoa that's like an update! nevertheless expect me here in a few days

Peace
Matt