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Midlife Crisis? What Midlife Crisis?

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EmanuelC16
Joined: 02.01.2010

You are making the mistake of projecting your own thought process into your opponent's head. That is definitely a leak, I know I used to do it a lot as well.

If that way worked, nobody would bother getting reads and nobody would win because everyone plays the same. It's your mistake for not thinking who you are facing and what are his tendencies.

That said, if you initially made the wrong assumptions and some good bluff didn't work, just readjust, don't beat yourself over it since it's counter productive. Think what could make him call so light and replace the air in your range with mediocre hands for value in that spot.


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jbpatzer
Joined: 23.11.2009

Originally posted by fruktpuff
I'm easily confused, because I play somewhat well and still lose, because I try to pull crap off that isn't working against morons.

Back to learning to assess opponents better.

I think you already made your assessment. When I'm driving, I usually assume that every other driver is a moron, and likely to do something stupid at the drop of a hat. I'm often right, and haven't had an accident since 1991 (when I was at the junction coming out of the place where I worked at the time, behind one of the secretaries, and thought 'if I put my foot down, we can both pull out into this gap', whilst she thought 'that gap's not big enough to pull out into' Craaash! My car fixable, hers written off. :facepalm: ). I think we should approach poker in the same way until we reach.....hmmm....NL50....NL100....NL200. No eye dear.

Originally posted by fruktpuff
Speaking of which, by the way.

In light of the mbml zoom video, it got me thinking.

Do you review hands you weren't actually involved in postflop, to see what the villain ended up doing (sometimes by using fold-and-stay on the table, sometimes in reviewing) or just focus mainly on your own play in Zoom?

I've found myself when zooming to occasionally stay and finish the hand when trying to bet into someone I've marked as an idiot, then getting either played back at or squeezed or whatever happens, but not really consider marking hands for proper review.

My plan is to do some reviews of people against whom I play a lot, but I don't think it's worth it on NL25. Hopefully I'll be back on NL50 soon, and then I probably will, although finding the time is going to be a problem.

Originally posted by EmanuelC16
You are making the mistake of projecting your own thought process into your opponent's head. That is definitely a leak, I know I used to do it a lot as well.

Indeed. TT has kicked my arse for doing this in the past.

I do think that, in the absence of any hands or stack size reads on someone, it is useful to have an idea of how the typical Zooom player thinks, and at NL25, you can't go far wrong with big bet = big hand.


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EmanuelC16
Joined: 02.01.2010

I did some reviews on players I had quite a few hands with and noticed their play isn't too much different. They have weak ranges in same spots, same preflop tendencies, rather similar postflop mistakes (which so often remind me of how I was playing) so I stopped doing it lately.

I'll do it next month for NL50 and get an overall idea and if I need to I'll do it more often but I doubt it from what I've seen while I played there and from sweating others playing there.


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jbpatzer
Joined: 23.11.2009

Originally posted by EmanuelC16
I did some reviews on players I had quite a few hands with and noticed their play isn't too much different. They have weak ranges in same spots, same preflop tendencies, rather similar postflop mistakes (which so often remind me of how I was playing) so I stopped doing it lately.

I'll do it next month for NL50 and get an overall idea and if I need to I'll do it more often but I doubt it from what I've seen while I played there and from sweating others playing there.

I think that the most time efficient way would be for you to review lots of players on NL50, me to review no players at all, and then we should share our results. This would be fair I think.


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jbpatzer
Joined: 23.11.2009

I just had a long conversation with one of my colleagues about exploitative play in the AKQ game. He told me it's all Markov Decision Theory. I had a look on the web, and found this paper

http://webdocs.cs.ualberta.ca/~holte/Publications/aaai2005poker.pdf

which is very interesting, and well worth a look. Apparently the AKQ game is just a reduced version of Kuhn poker, which was invented by Kuhn in 1950 (he used KQJ not AKQ). If I'm lucky, I'll find a decent undergraduate project student to have a look at this. My fingers are crossed.


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Waiboy
Joined: 18.09.2008

Originally posted by jbpatzer
When I'm driving, I usually assume that every other driver is a moron, and likely to do something stupid at the drop of a hat. I'm often right, and haven't had an accident since 1991 (when I was at the junction coming out of the place where I worked at the time, behind one of the secretaries, and thought 'if I put my foot down, we can both pull out into this gap', whilst she thought 'that gap's not big enough to pull out into' Craaash! My car fixable, hers written off. :facepalm: ).

That obviously taught you the pitfalls of banging secretaries.


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trickybob
Joined: 28.07.2010

Always listen to the little man ...


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jbpatzer
Joined: 23.11.2009

Originally posted by trickybob
Always listen to the little man ...

But what if your little man is a huge fish? What if he says 'Your truck burned out? That's terrible! Have $600.'? That's my little man. My little man says 'That's a big bet! Trying to bully me?? Take that you flash bastard!'. Retraining my little man is top priority for me. In fact, a bit less little man, and a bit more 'thinking in terms of ranges', 'reviewing the action', 'calculating EV' and all that stuff would be a better idea for me. I'm working on it.

And btw, the song Little Man by The Pineapple Thief is just the saddest song ever, but I can't find it anywhere online so I can't post it. :f_cry:


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trickybob
Joined: 28.07.2010

'That's a big bet! Trying to bully me?? Take that you flash bastard!'

That could be your ego jb!

The little man will be the voice that you weren't listening too that was somewhere in the background saying ...

"Yes, it's all well and good not being pushed around and all that, but there's more than a fair chance we're going to have our arses handed to us on a plate old bean."

(My Little Man is David Niven!)


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Tim64
Joined: 03.11.2008

^^
Thanks for Edward G and Niven clips - it's not like the old days....


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jbpatzer
Joined: 23.11.2009

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EmanuelC16
Joined: 02.01.2010
fruktpuff
Joined: 24.09.2010

Imagine all the alcohol and poker you can fund with 15% off!


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trickybob
Joined: 28.07.2010

Originally posted by Tim64
^^
Thanks for Edward G and Niven clips - it's not like the old days....

Sadly true.

How many of today's generation of stars will have the longevity of Edward G, Niven, Bogart and Bette Davies.

Even those that weren't great actors oozed star quality - Marilyn Monroe, James Dean, John Wayne, Lana Turner and my favourite Ava Gardner.

The most worrying thing though is that my daughter actually thinks I'm old enough to remember them all first time round!

Though she is a now a huge fan of Laurel & Hardy and The Marx Brothers, it took some convincing that black and white films had something to offer.


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Waiboy
Joined: 18.09.2008

Originally posted by fruktpuff
Imagine all the alcohol and poker you can fund with 15% off!

+1

And if you buy it twice you save 30%! 7+ times and they're paying you to buy it!


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jbpatzer
Joined: 23.11.2009

Originally posted by Waiboy

Originally posted by fruktpuff
Imagine all the alcohol and poker you can fund with 15% off!

+1

And if you buy it twice you save 30%! 7+ times and they're paying you to buy it!

I'm such a sucker for a special offer. I already signed up (but just the once). Apparently they're going to send a cattle prod through the post, and if I say 'Is there any wine in the fridge?', mrsjb has to use it on me. Worth every penny, especially as I can use it on the kids during the day when they ask for sweets and cakes once too often.

I'm probably not going to play tonight so I'm going to review this month now as it's been such an interesting one for me.

The first thing to note is that I played 45K hands (well done me, and thank god for Zooooom!). The second thing is that after 20K hands, whilst sitting in my underpants in my Oxford hotel room, I did make some changes to my game. There were some trivial things, like tightening up my preflop ranges and not paying off big bets on the river, but the major, and most effective change was that I got rid of my avatar and replaced it with . This may well be the most +EV adjustment I've made for some time. I'm not a donkey any more! Think about it. Makes sense right?

What am I to make of my 'progress' this year? I had a BR > $2.5K when I started, thanks to my 5CD exploits, then I spent 3.5 months slowly bleeding to death. At my low point (see graph) I had less than $400 left (Don't tell mrsjb I lost >£1K playing poker this year! I know it's not real money until you withdraw it and I made it from a $50 deposit last year, but she's not quite up to speed with how poker works.), although fortunately I'm back up to about $1K now. I think one of my problems has been a complete failure to understand the timescales on which poker works. I feel like a 19th century country vicar talking to that bloke who invented geology (cba to look him up and pretend I knew his name).

Geology bloke: You see those rock strata on that cliff. See the way they're at an angle? That's because over many millions of years the earth has shifted, and all that stuff used to be at the bottom of the sea. All the layers are sediment. You just need to think in geological timescales.
Vicar: Fuck off.

Playing 5CD or Zoom, you start to get a feel for the amount of patience you need, but playing 6 tables of ordinary NLHE, you could be forgiven for thinking that God has forgotten you. You can see in my graph that I've run a bit cold over the last 5K hands, and I've certainly called a couple of big river bets that I shouldn't have during that time, probably out of a bit of frustration, but that's just 5 hours play. On six ordinary tables, that would be about 15 hours. I'd be crying into my Fruit'n Fibre this morning.

One thing I've improved at is betting the river for thin value. I often get there and think whether there are some hands left in his range that would call a smaller bet, and manage to get the call from one of precisely those hands. One thing I still struggle with is when to fire the third barrel. I cbet, he calls. I pick up some equity and bet again. He calls. I miss on the river. I'm usually left in a bit of a quandary. Whenever I decide to fire again, they usually seem to call. Probably that's just the nature of NL25, but there are plenty of situations where I bet the river for value and he folds, so maybe there's some hand review required there.

So, finally, what are my goals for next month? Well, to get back to NL50 of course (if only to evade ihufa), but that's a bit results oriented. If I play 40K hands of NL25 I should be able to get platinum status, so I'll make that my goal as it's a volume oriented one.

Have a nice Sunday. I hope it's raining less where you are than where I am.


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EmanuelC16
Joined: 02.01.2010

Decide on the flop when you cbet what cards you would need to fire 3 barrels and you definitely should know on the turn if you should fire the 3rd bet.

Plan the streets, don't bet to see what happens and then click random buttons...

Btw, you should double your roll depending on RB if you play 40k hands of NL25 next month.


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Waiboy
Joined: 18.09.2008

Originally posted by jbpatzer
Have a nice Sunday. I hope it's raining less where you are than where I am.

LDO. _cool:


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jbpatzer
Joined: 23.11.2009

Originally posted by Waiboy

Originally posted by jbpatzer
Have a nice Sunday. I hope it's raining less where you are than where I am.

LDO. _cool:

Not directed at you or chenny LDO. I hear it mainly rains fire and brimstone in your part of Mordor.


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jbpatzer
Joined: 23.11.2009

Originally posted by EmanuelC16
Decide on the flop when you cbet what cards you would need to fire 3 barrels and you definitely should know on the turn if you should fire the 3rd bet.

Plan the streets, don't bet to see what happens and then click random buttons...

Btw, you should double your roll depending on RB if you play 40k hands of NL25 next month.

:f_o: And I thought my gameplan was top secret.


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