8000 Hand Downswing, is this normal?

metza, you got things confused..

SSS aka ShortStackStrategy is when you buy-in for 20bb and it's basically shove-or-fold..

MSS aka MiddleStackStrategy is when you buy-in for 40bb and it's not a shove-or-fold from the starts, but usually ends up that way with a good made hand..

Huh? I AM using short stack strategy, but on Zoom the min amount is 50bb instead of 40bb, so technically it is midstack but it's only a 20% difference and I play the short stack strategy playing style. And the suckouts have reverted to normal percentage, now up 6minBI.

So you're playing SSS strategy with 50bb's?
Even if you would to play MSS, with 50bb's instead of 40bb's metagame changes, don't even want to imagine how much is changed when you play a strategy that works with 20bb's with 50bb's..

To me it seems you're playing MSS.. Why don't you take everyone's advice and find some short-stack tables and play (true) SSS there?

Wishing you all the best!

Originally posted by Castle93

Originally posted by bodutzu
Are you playing on Stars?

haha this is too good burst out laughing when i saw this

Why? ♦

SSS use bad players, because they dont know to play with 100bb+...

poker isnt game to be meant to play only 1 street(preflop), it is a game of skill and mental capacities.....

everyone with IQ over 90 knows what I m talking about, so learn the game properly and play with full stack

ratholers, grimmers and hit n runners are hurting the game

Originally posted by bodutzu

Originally posted by Castle93

Originally posted by bodutzu
Are you playing on Stars?

haha this is too good burst out laughing when i saw this

Why? ♦

just the way yu put it like stars is the reason, another rigged joke

Originally posted by trgovcic
SSS use bad players, because they dont know to play with 100bb+...

poker isnt game to be meant to play only 1 street(preflop), it is a game of skill and mental capacities.....

everyone with IQ over 90 knows what I m talking about, so learn the game properly and play with full stack

ratholers, grimmers and hit n runners are hurting the game

The guy is in danger of busting his bankroll. Short stack strategy is used primarily for bankroll building purposes. For those players whose bankroll can't sustain a downswing and/or are in danger of going bust. It's also called bankroll management. Or being smart with your money.

It is not too difficult to understand, is it?

Originally posted by arthurbentley
The guy is in danger of busting his bankroll. Short stack strategy is used primarily for bankroll building purposes. For those players whose bankroll can't sustain a downswing and/or are in danger of going bust. It's also called bankroll management. Or being smart with your money.

It is not too difficult to understand, is it?

LOL, you are talking nonsense.....his bankroll is in danger so he must play SSS.... come on

drop a limit, and if you bust it isnt end of the world, he isnt playing for a living, get a real job, spare 100$, 200$ it isnt important, and start over again

Originally posted by Castle93

Originally posted by bodutzu

Originally posted by Castle93

Originally posted by bodutzu
Are you playing on Stars?

haha this is too good burst out laughing when i saw this

Why? ♦

just the way yu put it like stars is the reason, another rigged joke

It might be...

He is playing $2NL. How can he drop down? I gather by his posts that he doesn't intend to redeposit either. Do try and keep up with the theme of this thread.

Have you any experience of having to re-deposit? Can't be fun losing money! But if it wasn't for losers, there would be no winners.

@ trgovcic: I agree arthurbentley, maybe he can't deposit more. Not everyone has the means to do so. I also think if he could deposit at the drop of a hat, he wouldn't be so concerned about losing.

I can see this may be difficult for you, but I suggest you try very very hard to keep your comments positive and constructive. Someone is asking for help and advice, not asking to be knocked down and belittled.

Thank you,

Mal.

Originally posted by trgovcic
SSS use bad players, because they dont know to play with 100bb+...

poker isnt game to be meant to play only 1 street(preflop), it is a game of skill and mental capacities.....

everyone with IQ over 90 knows what I m talking about, so learn the game properly and play with full stack

ratholers, grimmers and hit n runners are hurting the game

Okay, seriously?
That's your take on SSS?

SSS isn't for bad players, it's free to use for any type of players.. Usually it's good for beginners because of the easiness of use, and no one can be good at the start of their career, can they?

Even the smartest poker player in the world might feel like playing 24 tables of robot-style SSS because he want so, and because he isn't in mood for some heads-up nosebleeds.. IMO, it's quite stupid to say it's a bad strategy, and to claim people playing SSS are bad..

Also there are many other not so easily seen benefits of SSS at first glance.. For example a good BSSer, can try to play on a limit higher than his with SSS or MSS and test out the field while risking so little.. Basically it has it's own pros and cons, and I do agree the BSS is the best, but IMO just saying it's for bad players is sooo wrong.

I also agree that poker is a game of skill and mental capacities, but I've had a hard time seeing any mental capacity in the micros at all. My aim is to play Heads Up SNG but I do not enjoy the craziness of $1.50 games, such as people who go all in every hand, so I am just building my bankroll till I can afford to play $7 Heads Up SNG.

I have tried a few of the $7 HU games and won 2/3 of them, tried a $15 game and won (barely), and it is great to play against people who play decent poker, but at the moment I cannot afford the bankroll risk, so I am just gonna try to grind my BR up to $210 then play $7 HU SNG.

For the meantime I will MSS Zoom till I get there.

Here is a hand that I think I played really badly even though I won, I just could not make any sense of his play. It should have been an easy fold, but my gut reaction was he was bluff-shoving AK. My flop probe bet got a min re-raise which kinda raised the alarm bells, but can't fold when getting pot odds like that. Then his donkbet shove had me thinking for a bit, but all I could think is he's pretending to have a set or 45 but I just can't credit him with either. I guess he has something like a pocket pair without a set, AK/AQ or A8/A6 and since I beat all of those except AA, KK, QQ I make the call on a gut feeling. Is this bad? The bet size makes it hard to call, but a lot of people call the BB speculatively and then stack off with a weak top pair (Or in this case a backdoor flush draw).

PokerStars - $0.02 NL (9 max) ZOOM - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

Hero (BTN): $1.53
SB: $2.14
BB: $2.00
UTG: $3.12
UTG+1: $2.53
MP: $1.89
MP+1: $1.38
LP: $4.97
CO: $4.20

SB posts SB $0.01, BB posts BB $0.02

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero has J♦ J♥

fold, fold, fold, MP+1 raises to $0.06, fold, fold, Hero raises to $0.12, SB calls $0.11, BB calls $0.10, MP+1 calls $0.06

Flop: ($0.48, 4 players) 3♠ 8♣ 6♥
SB checks, BB checks, MP+1 checks, Hero bets $0.16, SB calls $0.16, BB raises to $0.32, fold, Hero calls $0.16, fold

Turn: ($1.28, 2 players) 7♣
BB bets $1.00, Hero raises to $1.09 and is all-in, BB calls $0.09

River: ($3.46, 2 players) 7♥

BB shows K♣ J♣ (One Pair, Sevens) (Pre 35%, Flop 17%, Turn 27%)
Hero shows J♦ J♥ (Two Pair, Jacks and Sevens) (Pre 65%, Flop 83%, Turn 73%)
Hero wins $3.34

Just found this. Metza this is important and the only way to win:

1) Go down to 1 table. (if you still playing more than one)
2) Get you tracking software working. (It seems to be working again)
3) focus on the ev - line in your tracker not your bankroll
4) Learn the MSS untill you understand it and apply it almost to the letter. when you deviate from the basic MSS you must (a) know what the basic strategy requires, (b) why the basic strategy requires a specific move and (c) why you are diviating from it. I mean simple things like min-3betting in the above example simply is not on.

Do that and win

I can see this may be difficult for you, but I suggest you try very very hard to keep your comments positive and constructive. Someone is asking for help and advice, not asking to be knocked down and belittled.

Thank you,

Mal.

maybe my posts seems hursh or even unpolite, but I blow up when I see someone crying over losing roll for nanostakes....

Why is so hard to spare 100$ ??? you know what I m talking about

i think it's also about proving to yourself that you can build up. i used to deposit the odd $10 here and there and wonder why i couldn't build a bankroll

after reading strategy and actually trying to apply it, i deposited 1 more time and never since. i can understand why he might not want to deposit.

@metza:
i think the only thing you can do is study and take the advice you are being given. there is no reason why you can't build up from nl2 with MSS and <$50. from some of the hands you have posted here and what you have said it appears that you aren't following a strategy. MSS is pretty straight forward so you should probably read over as much for that as possible.

i think to lose so much early on in one's poker career is probably more to do with bad play than it is to do with bad run. don't focus on the money, focus on improving your game. fish are fish, no matter what level so learn to beat them when it's cheap

depositing can be a good thing too, I used to go around playing dumb with inventing new "strategies" and having bad approach towards poker until I had to redeposit.

metza, just a moment - can you play MSS at zoom really? Think about it, the BI minimum is 50bb's, while recommended strategy for MSS play is 40bb's or even lower like 35bb's if room allows..

For the meantime I will MSS Zoom till I get there.

Just saying..

Have you thought about moving down a limit....like to the play money?

Originally posted by nefarious26
Have you thought about moving down a limit....like to the play money?

Haha Wp sir

Originally posted by nefarious26
Have you thought about moving down a limit....like to the play money?

This.. if your losing 17 buy ins over 8000 hands at 2NL chances are your not on a downswing your just a whale (no offence intended).

Fix your leaks / work on your game. I think the best way to work on your 2NL game is to play PLO; some great stuff to be learned and the best knowledge I have found is at 25NL on Stars most evenings.

Technically I was only down 9BI as I was doing 50bb BI not 100BI. The problem was I had misread the SSS/MSS and was playing a weird amalgamation of the two which would lead to me becoming pot committed by the turn. There were a lot of bad beats over this period too, but the playing style meant I couldn't get away from hands like TPTK when my opponent turned a better hand like 2 pair.

Have since switched to BSS and am now up around 15BI from 10000 hands, finding it much easier in terms of decision making etc. The only real difficult decisions with BSS at NL2 I find is playing an overpair to a reraise, as people in NL2 will often overplay TPTK so you can't tell if you are up against TPTK or a set.

Again thanks to everyone who posted helpful comments in this thread, especially suggesting the BSS.