[Closed] Would you ever fold AA preflop?

Example 2:

Titan Poker Prague 30/60, hand converted by the iPoker Converter at Talking-Poker

saw flop | saw showdown

Button (390)
SB (4480)
BB (1280)
UTG Hero (1370)
UTG+1 UTG+1 (1250)
MP (1180)
MP (3680)
CO-1 (1260)
CO CO (1640)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with A♥ A♠
Hero raises to 240, UTG+1 raises to 1250, 3 folds, CO moves all-in for 1640, 3 folds, Hero moves all-in for 1130.

Flop (4350) Q♦ 9♣ 5♥

Turn (4350) T♣

River (4350) J♥

CO shows T♠ Q♠
Hero shows A♥ A♠
UTG+1 shows Q♥ K♦

UTG+1 wins 4350 with A straight, King high

No, I like having a guranteed 80% edge.

http://plusev.net/d/20071126.html ♦

imo there is no way to fold in these spots, esp. in the first one. in the 2nd, vs 2 opponents i still would call - maybe if like 4 people behind you went all-in it would be +EV to lay down imo

You have 72% equity in example 1, and 75% equity in example 2. You're going to get your aces cracked occasionally, but folding when you have these kinds of odds is -EV in the long run.

Thanks guys, you make me feel better for bombing 4 tournies in a row

Full Tilt Poker, $0.05/$0.10 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 8 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

SB: $7
BB: $9.90
UTG: $1.70
UTG+1: $11.70
MP1: $6.90
MP2: $3.35
Hero (CO): $2.50
BTN: $3.75

Pre-Flop: A♥ A♠ dealt to Hero (CO)
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to $0.20, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.50, 3 folds, UTG+1 raises to $1.65, Hero raises to $2.50 and is All-In, UTG+1 calls $0.85

Flop: ($5.15) K♥ K♠ Q♣ (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Turn: ($5.15) 4♠ (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

River: ($5.15) K♣ (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: $5.15 Pot ($0.50 Rake)
UTG+1 showed K♦ A♦ (four of a kind, Kings) and WON $4.65 (+$2.15 NET)
Hero showed A♥ A♠ (a full house, Kings full of Aces) and LOST (-$2.50 NET)

bad luck ?

Originally posted by gvisi
Full Tilt Poker, $0.05/$0.10 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 8 Players
LeggoPoker.com - Hand History Converter

SB: $7
BB: $9.90
UTG: $1.70
UTG+1: $11.70
MP1: $6.90
MP2: $3.35
Hero (CO): $2.50
BTN: $3.75

Pre-Flop: A♥ A♠ dealt to Hero (CO)
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to $0.20, 2 folds, Hero raises to $0.50, 3 folds, UTG+1 raises to $1.65, Hero raises to $2.50 and is All-In, UTG+1 calls $0.85

Flop: ($5.15) K♥ K♠ Q♣ (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Turn: ($5.15) 4♠ (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

River: ($5.15) K♣ (2 Players - 1 is All-In)

Results: $5.15 Pot ($0.50 Rake)
UTG+1 showed K♦ A♦ (four of a kind, Kings) and WON $4.65 (+$2.15 NET)
Hero showed A♥ A♠ (a full house, Kings full of Aces) and LOST (-$2.50 NET)

bad luck ?

happens

poker is all about odds & variances

As against under pairs will win 4 times out of 5 so even if you have a bad run it will change

@ the question from thread title: yeah, sure. Missclicks happen.

This may not be exactly the conditions you are talking about, but in tournaments where there is the same prize for many places and no prizes for priors (like a super satelite where top whatever get entry.) I can see a laydown of AA preflop for all of your chips on or close to the bubble.
There is no good chipping up to get a chiplead, you just need to make the place. Even though you may be a huge favourite, there is no reason to get involved.
I know people will disagree but what do people think?

Yes chazza is on the money here. Only when there is a freezeout tourney where the prizes are all the same and survival is the game would you EVER fold AA pre. You would only do this when there are several all ins and folding would guarantee you a prize, otherwise, it would likely still be correct to get it all in there and cement your place. Some have argued that in a very loose environment where there are several all ins like, 7 all ins in the first hand and you feel your edge is so high that you are guaranteed to place well folding can be correct. I still think even this is absurd and I would never fold AA preflop, although it has happened to me before on occasions when ive misclicked:(. Preflop AA is the nuts, never fail to bet the nuts, and never fold the nuts, it's dumb. Keep plugging away xponentx, if you're playing well the winning rush will come

That's it i'm quitting tournaments for a while. Played 3 MTT's today, and knocked out of all of them with big hands Once with AA, once with KK, and once with QQ. I wouldn't mind so much if my KK or QQ was busted by AA, but it just never seems to go that way for me. This is more than variance, this is just plain back luck.

Just for laughs:

----------------------

Titan Poker 1 Freezeout 200/400, hand converted by the iPoker Converter at Talking-Poker

saw flop | saw showdown

CO (10970)
CO Hero (5075)
UTG (9372.50)
UTG+1 (11912.49)
MP (4295)
CO-1 (10205)
BB (2200)
SB SB (12962.50)

Preflop: Hero is in the CO with A♦ A♥
1 fold, Hero moves all-in for 5075, 4 folds, SB calls 4875, 1 fold.

Flop (10550) 7♥ 2♦ T♥

Turn (10550) J♦

River (10550) Q♥

Hero shows A♦ A♥
SB shows J♠ J♣

SB wins 10550 with Three of a kind, Jacks

I think Harrington in his book wrote about one scenario when he would fold aces preflop. I think the scenario he described was that there was a satellite bubble (everyone after the bubble gets tickets to main event) and one shortstack moves all-in, one bigstack moves all in and Harrington folds aces as he assumes that villain that made the push has hand good enough to knock out shortstack. There also were long mathematical explanation how this is EV- for both bigstack and him, but I dont rember that in details

[ ] searched

Hypothetical situation

folding it in a satellite is OK in extreme bubble cases. but any other case (except truly weird cases like sonic's) AA is an instacall.

@OP's case folding AA is a crime against humanity.

generally speaking you will not come across a case of folding AA pre, so don't do it!

I folded AA once in a satellite, and it made me happy

I never folded AA preflop in a lot of SNG. They did get cracked a few times around the bubble, but then the times I did win, it made up for losses because I would usually take the chip lead and 1st place.

fold if twenty people go all in (yeh on 20max table lol) before you in a wsop sat or sommit. othewise never. aa is winnarrr

i can find (actually quite a few) spots (at low limits) to fold AA in a normal sng, but i think that people will get the wrong idea, and not understand my reasoning behind it.

so i answer: never fold AA preflop in SNG/cash/MTT, ty ;D.