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The making of a professional...poker player and trader

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Originally posted by martinemem
Look im gold

Well ofc i jump on the wagon of trading aswell, since i've been doing it for some few years, and i would love to hear about how many % capital u pull up in avg pr month.

Also how u approach that there isnt only 10 forex's, but more like 50 . (im thinking here how u calculate the daily fees compared to your profit over time (daytrading/weekly/monthly) + how u stop the politician from eating all profits due to rigged markets based on untrue holdings that gets added public when its in their favor - how u decrease the amount of time ur stocks are open (due to daily fees that can eat u up, if u dont set the correct stoploss - OR add more % to the stock (since we cant expect to make a profit of a forex, if we look to far ahead, due to the daily fees (1-2month+)))

I REALLY love how u approach gambling. Its like 99,95% like mine. I trade forex on the same time as i play poker, however trading is a little on hold for me now, because i make like 10x on poker right now

When i started out (no xp AT ALL) i got 100% increase of capital in 3 month, then i deposited 10x capital, narrowed it down so i would expect to get 35% ~ pr 3. month, then i learned that it was still a little too agressive in my opinion, so again, now instead of raping 1 forex (add % every time it drops x%) i invest ALWAYS in 3 at the same time (much less varianse (AA 3 times instead of 1 :))) and it gave me in the beginning pr. month +-5%, but now the % has dropped since my capital has increased so i know im not getting 5% anymore.
SO my question to you - since i know that if u get a 100% increase on ur capital, u still cant increase monthly % by 100% because there just is more than 1 factor (ur profit isnt direct proportional with ur capital) - HOW do you calculate in % how much ur a willing to buy for?

Lets take an example
GPB/USD
Price 10£
Gearing 1:50
Pieces/amount 1
Approach Daytrade/sell as fast a possible (daily fee to a minimum)

Lets say u are agressive and have 100£ and u buy 1 piece 10£. That works and u repeat maybe 200 times.
Now u have 1000£ and u buy ? pieces (Just mentioned above why it isnt 10x (100£ u bought))

So u still have the same % left in ur disposenal capital, BUT when GBP/USD drops lets say 150 points over 1 week, u wont have the same % left in ur capital with 1000£ as u would had with 100£

So since u are a coach how do you determin what factor is appropiate to divide with ur % buy amount?
It has something to do with the gearing right? So am i totally wrong to say, that u could do something like:
Gearing: 50
Ok, so divide our % buy amount by ex. 15% of the gearing so:
(50/100)*15 = 7.5% (new factor in %)

So old buy amount was 10% 10£
So new buy amount is still 10% 100£ BUT now we remove 15% of the gearing (50)
so NEW NEW amount is 92.5£ we buy for this time

Also since when i thought this through we cant really make a exact plan, because the gearing differ.
So lets take a stock of a gearing of 1:5. This is 10% of the above. So here should we add 90% to the 15% (28.5%)?
(5/100)*28.5 = 1,425% Is this too low factor even though that the gearing is only 5?
Or would it be more appropiate to take 180% of the opposite?
Its still a 10% of the above, so 180% to the 15% (42%)?
(5/100)*42 = 2.1% factor

Here we should be able to buy a little more due to the lower gearing (Or am i actually totally wrong?)
Above with 1:50 gearing we took 7.5% off our buy % amt. (92.5£)
Here with a gearing of 1:5 we only take 1,425 % off our buy % amt. (98,575)
Here with a gearing of 1:5 we only take 2.1% off our buy % amt. (97.9£) (double diff bw the comparison of gearing and factor)

So we now get an example of another stock:

martinememPoker A/S
Price 48.95£
Gearing 1:5
Pieces 2
Longterm trading (doesnt sell after a week)

How does the last example change in your oppinion if we said the price instead was exactly what we can afford, and not 50%.
So price instead is 97.9£ and we only buy 1 piece instead?

Am i totally in the woods on this one? Any thoughts?

hey martinemem

sorry but I do not understand your post entirely.
First you talk about some stocks, then about forex, gearing etc and then make an aanlysis of how much to risk.

While I didn't trade stocks, I dabbled with ETFs(quite similar), but not on an investing basis(holding them for weeks or months), but on a day-trading basis(couple of hours, couple of days).

I did not understand your analysis that well, but what I deducted is that somehow, you calculated the risk at 10%. So if you have a $1k account, you risk $100. That is waaaaaaaaaaaaaay too much, and sooner or later you will go bust if every time you trade 10%, that I guarantee you.

As a general rule, risk aroung 1-2% of your account on any trade. But there's another catch.

Let's say your account is 10k.
1% is $100.
Ok so we determined that you are risking $100 on the next trade. Now, it is also very important to determine position size, because a move of 1 point can cost $10 or $20 or $50 or etc depending on your position size and it can take seconds or days to hit your stop-loss (more detailed post will follow).

hope this helps until i write more detailed posts on the subjects mentioned above and in the earlier posts
hope this helps


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now moving on to the subject of poker a bit :P

played 9k hands of NL10 to get back in tunes with the cash games. Breakeven until now.

In the weekend I watched a couple of videos from CR from Verneer, and I immediately discovered some leaks I had, and the biggest now is that I play too loose. I love playing loose, but unfortunately I am not yet prepared to play loose because I still lack a significant amount of post-flop skills. (had 20% pfr utg, 21 %mp, adn moving up to 27% or something like that on the BTN). I had a too loose of an opening range in the early positions and got myself in tricky spots in some hands and because I was OOP, didn't know how to play them right. (yes, playing OOP is tough :P)

So, over the next 11k hands I will play tighter, and I am sure results will follow.

Next major review will be after I play 11k hands and will be at the 20k hands mark.

This reminds me, have to install Sidekick :f_cool:


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Originally posted by bmfbpi
(had 20% pfr utg, 21 %mp, adn moving up to 27% or something like that on the BTN)

27% is way to tight on the btn. Should be >40%.

I'm playing a 21/17 atm and my opens are: 12/14/30/55/35

What's your rough range in each position?


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Originally posted by holmeboy

Originally posted by bmfbpi
(had 20% pfr utg, 21 %mp, adn moving up to 27% or something like that on the BTN)

27% is way to tight on the btn. Should be >40%.

I'm playing a 21/17 atm and my opens are: 12/14/30/55/35

What's your rough range in each position?

i totally agree

will post this when I get back home, but something like:
EP, MP, CO: all between 20% and 25%
BTN between 25% and 30%

but as I said, will have to double-check when I arrive home


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If you use equilab/pokerstove and post what hands your opening in each position everyone should be able to give some solid advice.


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Originally posted by holmeboy
If you use equilab/pokerstove and post what hands your opening in each position everyone should be able to give some solid advice.

will do

Will post from now on trouble-hands immediately after each session


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Pe6o0o
Joined: 17.08.2010

Much respect for poker player/daily trader type of people. Great blog so far. Will follow.

GL _thumbsup:


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MasochisticDesire
Joined: 25.10.2010

Opening ranges have to be adjusted according to table dynamic and the style of your opponents and shouldn't be set in stone.

Can open 100% from BUT vs SB&BB fold to steal 90+% and still turn a profit but this will obviously not be the case vs lower fold to steal.

Similarly, with three nits to your left but fish in the blinds you can raise much wider range from UTG than if you have two opponents with 10% 3bet percentages immediatly to your left.

All this said, after even 8k hands though you'd expect to see a progression in opening range from early through to late positions.

Which site are you playing at mate?

Regarding the 'study group' I mentioned earlier in the blog; there has been a bit of interest and two others have contacted me (holmeboy included.) As yet no one has made a move to organise it so thought I would give it a shot. I'll get a mic asap and then look to contact people.
PM me your Skype address if you are interested.
All Micro mashas welcome :f_biggrin:

@Holmeboy - Wondering how your CO open is considerably larger than your BUT. Are you very conscious about table selection and picking seats with tight/passive players immediatly to your left. (I need to do a lot more of this.)


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@MasochisticDesire: i totally agree that opening ranges should not be static and depend on table dynamic.

for these first k hands I also experimented a lot with a lot of things. Having also watched and read a lot on cash, I know from the higher stakes where you have to balance your opening ranges so that regs can't get reads on you easily, that some players also open 87s, 89s, etc from UTG(example). Of course, you also need to know how to play them profitably OOP.

The thing is I put myself in situations ahead of time (lol). There is absolutely no need to balance anything at 10NL, 25 and even 50 NL imo. Player pool is too large. That's why i decided to become way tighter in early position and open way wider in late positions.


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Updated October goals(in first post):

October 2012 goals:
- Gold member PS
- Reach NL20(need 20 buyins, so $400 to start taking shots)
- Read Harrington on 6max cash book
- watch 5 coaching videos with note-taking
- post 30 prooblem hands

let's go October !


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Originally posted by MasochisticDesire
@Holmeboy - Wondering how your CO open is considerably larger than your BUT. Are you very conscious about table selection and picking seats with tight/passive players immediatly to your left. (I need to do a lot more of this.)

Hey I think your getting my btn and sb mixed up:

12/14/30/55/35
UTG/MP/CO/BU/SB

I generally don't care about table selection (although I should!). I'll happily just sit with anyone... The way I look at it we learn by playing against better players and if they are playing these limits they must have some leaks so need to concentrate more so i can spot them. My winrate suffers but feel I learn more so helps in the longrun imo. Only table select when taking shots so get used to the increase in $$. weird when you start 3betting ~$1.80 instead of ~$0.90.

Good luck with your goals bmfbpi!


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MasochisticDesire
Joined: 25.10.2010

The thing is I put myself in situations ahead of time (lol). There is absolutely no need to balance anything at 10NL, 25 and even 50 NL imo. Player pool is too large. That's why i decided to become way tighter in early position and open way wider in late positions.

Couldnt agree more, I try to consider balancing as a good habit to get into but not necessary in the micros. I still think it important to balance betsizing though as IMO the most obviously exploitable weakness in the regs I meet at the tables is betsizing tells. So many I meet reliably half pot Cbet fold 100% when they miss the flop. LMAO

Hey I think your getting my btn and sb mixed up:

12/14/30/55/35
UTG/MP/CO/BU/SB

Yeah that makes more sense, my bad.

PS. are we all at 'work' dossing all hours of the day on PS.com. HA!


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Originally posted by MasochisticDesire
Couldnt agree more, I try to consider balancing as a good habit to get into but not necessary in the micros. I still think it important to balance betsizing though as IMO the most obviously exploitable weakness in the regs I meet at the tables is betsizing tells. So many I meet reliably half pot Cbet fold 100% when they miss the flop. LMAO

PS. are we all at 'work' dossing all hours of the day on PS.com. HA!

that's what I also keep telling myself, but need to work on more important leaks now, and leave balancing on the side for now :P

PS: no money in the jobworld, everyone's solidly reading pokerstrategy aahahahahah


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Originally posted by holmeboy

I'm playing a 21/17 atm and my opens are: 12/14/30/55/35

What's your rough range in each position?

ok, arrived home

situation looking worse than i thought lol

EP: 18.7
MP:20
CO:20
BTN:21
SB: 11.5

as you can see, my ranges for raising pre are pretty much the same lol not good.

As I said earlier, need to open tighter in EP and looser in BTN

Will post update when I hit 20k hands


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Lol oh dear...

Might be worth going to equilab a spending a few minutes working out what kind of hands to open in each position so you have something like:

UTG: 77+, A9s+, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KJo+ (not my range just put 12% in)
MP: ........
CO: .......

And so forth. I know poker is dynamic and having static ranges isn't good. But having a plan/guideline can be helpful while your trying to be more positionally aware, and at least if you say that's your utg range above and you begin opening A7o utg you know your getting too loose and can tighten up.

What hands are you opening in each position atm?


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philhellmutt
Joined: 16.02.2011

Nice thread, and yes, poker and Forex trading follow so many similar concepts (risk management, discipline, patience etc).

I'm the opposite to you - found that poker is way too much of a long, boring grind, whereas with Forex I only do 3 or 4 trades per month to make far more money. And unlike poker I'm making decent money without needing to spend hours and hours grinding for 5bb/100 winrate in 5NL, getting frustrated with donks! Or maybe I'm just not that good at poker... ;)

Each to their own I guess.

Another suggestion for those interested in Forex: look at this site by Nial Fuller:

http://www.learntotradethemarket.com/

Check out his videos and lessons for some fairly simple "set-and-forget" trading strategies. IMHO, a great way for a n00b to start their forex adventure.


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Phgrinder
Joined: 16.02.2009

love the blog. do you have skype? would like to discuss forex and poker with you. i play 6max currently and want to learn forex as well


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andreibalint
Joined: 11.04.2009

There is also a very large difference between trading and playing poker:

In poker it's rather simple to feel you have the best hand ( AA, KK preflop, full house+), while in trading you can't do that. You might have high probability setups but there is nothing like 100% there. :)

I'm actually thinking for this reason you can "play" trading pretty laggy and make money.

By the way, anyone traded forex futures rather then the CFD's?


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Hi There

I have a full time job, but trade stocks and play poker at the same time.
I have often thought abotu getting into full time trading, but also really love playing poker.
Throughout my life I have never specialised in one thing, (jack of all trades, but master of none) and seem to be doing this with job/poker/trading.

Recently I have been playing poker more, but still have like 90% of my bank role with trading.

So I will favourit this thread and keep on reading, see what happens.
In the meantime I will be learning poker and mostly trading psychology as I think my biggest enemy in my poker/trading career is myself
:-)

my 2 cents.


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Originally posted by Phgrinder
love the blog. do you have skype? would like to discuss forex and poker with you. i play 6max currently and want to learn forex as well

sorry for the very late reply

send you a friend request here, i will message you my skype after you accept


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