20K hands in PLO2 ZOOM, win a coaching!

4/9

Originally posted by TiciBoy

Originally posted by Tomaloc

Originally posted by Kyyberi
I really hoped that the winnable coaching would engourage people to post thoughts about this, PLO2 or PLO overall in this thread. Along with the guessing.

But that didn't happen, wrong reads.

we just want the freebies

anyway, talking about plo, i went on to random.org and told it to generate me some possible winrates
21/28 gogogo

Hey, no cheating!

Originally posted by TiciBoy
Not a PLO player (yet), but here it goes...

21/28

ZOMG random.org rigged! D:

a new set of numbers - 20/23

Originally posted by Kyyberi
I really hoped that the winnable coaching would engourage people to post thoughts about this, PLO2 or PLO overall in this thread. Along with the guessing.

But that didn't happen, wrong reads.

Ok, here's some additional thoughts from me:

Some people are incredibly passive, some have Afq of under 25. It's important that you lay down your set when they start donking once the flushdraw completes.

Some people are very easy to read. Some have a pfr of 1 or 2, and when they 3bet you know they always have AAxx. Some of these players won't give their AAxx up, or they always cbet full pot, so all you have to do is flop 2pair or better and get the stacks in.

A couple of players nearly always jam their nutflushdraws in a hu pot. They seem to think they're flipping so they get the stacks in.

What happens an awfull lot is that players chase very weak draws, like 8high flushdraws multiway, open enders on boards with flushdraw. Some people start valuebetting their straight on a multiway monosuited flop.

The last big leak many people have is that they don't have any clue about betsizing. Some people just mash the pot button all day long, and some love to minbet, or bet 20% of the pot, or even decrease their sizing over streets.

The best thing that can happen is that the complete maniacs join your table, these people play like 95/65/50 and Afq 80. Make sure you 3bet them while holding AAxx and you're a favourite to get a 200bb pot. It's a shame most of these players leave the table after they drop one stack

No more bets please!

After 3K hands, the winrates are 25/5.

I took quite a beating in my last 300 hands as there were 3 hands almost in a row where I got a big portion of my stack in on flop, then the rest on turn when opponent has hit his 2 or 4 outers, after a horrible call on previous street. Those will show up in the long run, but at the moment my EV winrate dropped like a bomb. Got some setups, against average PLO2 donkey 2nd nuts on flop (underfull and 2nd nu flush) in 3bet pots are good. This time I was drawing dead for 300bb's.

I also tried to bet a nit off from his aces. Didn't really work. He snapcalled my flop shove with bare aces to 467ss board. What was I thinking?

Overall in PLO2 your gameplan shouldn't include any FE in turn, river or any 3bet pots. People take such a horrible lines with nuts, with air and with everything in between. And I am sure that they don't even know why. Like a guy who bets the flop with gutshot. I call. Turn completes his straight and a flush. He bets, I call. River is a blank, he bets big, I call. He has a straight, I have a flush. Was that for value or a bluff? I have no idea, and I think neither does he.

Common line with flopped nuts: minibet-donk or check-miniraise on flop. Turn check, and shove if opponent bets. If opponent checks, try the same thing on river. So with flopped nuts the common value against hero is minidonk on flop, check turn, check river. Nice value.

And just to make it clear, you can't put people on a range. I thought I made a nice read today, and shoved kings deep preflop. As another deep villain 3bet, got 2 calls, and shorstack 4bet shoved. He just called, so I thought that he doesn't have aces, as he would have shoved it himself over that against 2 other players. So I shoved my kings, he thought for 10 seconds and called with aces.

So for the remaining 17K hands I am moving slightly more towards just valuebetting my ass off. Reduce 3betting to premium range, there is no point in 3betting more marginal hands as the FE in 3bet pots is so small.

Wow, I'm starting to believe PLO2 on stars is even softer than on ipoker:O. The only time I outflopped AAxx today I flopped the nut straight and he flopped top 2, with NFdraw, which he rivered

I would have thought Rush PLO2 is slighly tougher than regular PLO2 as even the fishiest players have a slightly narrower range. The additional volume probably more than compensates though.

Still super-soft. All about value betting in my opinion.

Normal PLO2 is supersoft. Zoom is little bit tougher. There are players with good preflop stats, it's just the ranges preflop and overall postflop play that is their problem. But of course it's easier to make money among the 83/2/0 players than 22/18/6 players.

4K mark down too. And I am SOOOOOOO steaming. That PLO2 Zoom is VERY tilting. As almost in every hand someone makes something very stupid. So with 700 hands per hour, those stupid things get rewarded pretty often. The best one was supernova (yeah, in PLO2 Zoom) who cold 4betted 4468r. I 5betted, he called, flop was 4 way. And he called my flop shove with gutshot. And hit it. And won 700bb pot. Can't blame him, if he was just letting some steam out. I had only few hands on him on my hud but it seemed that he was just smashing the raise button as fast as he can. And he happened to hit his 4 outer. And that same has happened throughout the day, and it's just so frustrating. Of course I have won some pots, but overall the feeling is bad.

Anyway, after 4K hands the winrate is 6/10.

6/12

Originally posted by Meck125
6/12

The guessing ended in 3K hands mark. Sorry.

I disagree on that playing against maniacs is the best way to make money. With them you are basicly making huge flips, where you have 50-60% equity. Your EV isn't that great, but variance is. And rake eats away some of your equity. So instead of 95/65/50 you should find that 95/6/0 player who just doesn't like to fold any draw, any pair. And then get your money in with 90% equity all day long.

Remember that AAxx against maniac's range is about 60% favorite. So 100bb deep your EV winnings in the pot is 20bb. You also pay 8bb as rake, so what's left is 8bb. Big variance for 8bb in EV. Of course it's bullet proof profit when you have the aces, but often the problem is that you don't get aces that often. And when you do, you are not certain to get stacks in preflop. So if you 4bet, he calls and then you shove flop your EV is even less. And between those aces you might call pre and fold couple of flops, so you have lost over 8bb's before you get aces.

A lot of beginning players think that playing against maniacs is EZ money. It is easy to make money when you hit the hand, but you should see the whole picture. One main concept in being laggy is that you steal a lot of flops. So you win some money. Then when opponent shows that he has a hand, you just see if you have equity to gamble. And you basicly gamble with the money you have won from the smaller pots. Of course it he laggy player is just a poor one who doesn't know equities or ranges, it's a lot easier to make money.

5K mark. Run good for 930 hands, +5bin. Then in the next 100 hands I lost all my winnings, got assraped by donkeys. Doesn't feel nice. You know, the players who cold 4bet Q933r, and then call a potsized 5bet. 4-500bb deep, of course. Then they hit Q, can't fold, and spike another Q on the river. Or the players who overplay almost any hand when turn completes everything, just to find out they had 2 outs to win.

Well, after 5K hands the score is 0/10. At least it's changing rapidly, so the tension goes up!

As the guessing is over you could give your idea of your winnings/ev

Btw I like your general ideas on how to beat micro stakes PLO. Keep it up

My idea of winrate at PLO2 Zoom is 20/20. Might be even higher.

Poor Kyyberi.

I hate those ass raping donkies, too. Cheers!

Btw, Wouldn't it be +Ev to play drunk? You always luckbox in omaha when you don't have any idea of what you do

Well those who thought I might win something from this game should reconcider their expectations. Played another 1K set, first 300 hands were good. Despite one huge suckout in 400bb pot I ended up +2,5bin in winnings and in EV. Took a little break, and then in the next 700 hands I lost 10bin in winnings and 5bin in EV. Just horrible.

People are overplaying aces all the time. I call with premium cracking hands, and miss the flops one by one. When I hit, someone hits better or sucks out. Then I managed to get my money in +200bb deep, only to find myself losing to runner runner flushes, and top set when I have 2nd set and a blocker to top set. And I gotta love the guy who was over 200bb deep with me, decided to 4bet TT84ss, and then call my 5bet. Hit his set, of course.

After 6K hands the winnings are -14/2. Not what I would have expected.

with the info we had that far it'd definitely not be maximum EV for us to bet in a loss

anyway yeah, that sickening feeling of running terrible when moving down?

At least it's nicer to hit +10bin downswings in PLO2 than in PLO50.

Still 14K hands to go, and anything can happen. There are guys who put 80bb to pot on turn with bottom end gutshot, when I have the nuts (don't know what he thought I would bet-raise there...). So winning a lot in short time isn't that hard. I will put a graph at halfway, it should be interesting.

7K down, booked a winning session. Could have won 5bin more but in the almost last hand a donkey took raise pot - pot - pot line with bottom two. I have top pair, fd and a straight draw. Missed all my zillion outs.

Stats are now -7/4.

When I have time I will make a nice spreadsheet of all the guesses.

44 guesses, only 2 of those thought I would have negative winrate. No one thought my EV winnings would be negative. Thanks for believing in me!

I just forgot to answer here, I had said that winrate was sth. like -7/-3. But forgot so everybody believes in you ://

You can't beat fish in MIKRO Omaha with std. play, never :)) There's just too many vill. to outdraw you with their GSSD.