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A3o, preflop, 3-bet shove, pot odds

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Party Poker $1 USD Buy-in No Limit Hold'em Tournament - t300/t600 Blinds - 3 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

Hero (BB): t3860 6.43 BBs
BTN: t6120 10.20 BBs
SB: t10020 16.70 BBs

Pre Flop: (t0) Hero is BB with 3 :diamond: A :heart:
BTN raises to t1800, 1 fold, Hero raises to t3260 all in, BTN calls t1460

It seems to be according to the push/fold stage chart (marginally). But I give him 3.7:1 pot odds. I wonder maybe I shouldn't have given him more than 2:1 with a hand of mine? Or this is a value bet and we don't need fold equity? I'm so confused... :f_confused:

Also, any comments on pot odds in general please, like:
a) Do pot odds matter in the push/fold stage at all?
b) If they do, is it reasonable to expect players to consider them at this limit?

Thanks!


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7 replies
clydePHP
Joined: 02.03.2011

yes it matters, even with bad pot odds youll experience getting called alot in this limit .as played you should fold it but you probably thinking it was for value so either way its up to you what you want


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maythany
Joined: 18.10.2011

At this limit, many players do not consider pot odds. Some are aware of the term pot odds, but do not use it accordingly. With this in mind, the BTN will call anything with a decent hand against your push because it's not much more to call your all in.

I don't know if pot odds matter in this stage? For me I assign a range percentage for my opponents. For example, I would assign my opponent a 35% pushing range and I would see what hands are profitable against that range by using a program called icmizer.


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Originally posted by maythanythe BTN will call anything with a decent hand against your push because it's not much more to call your all in.

I might be wrong of course, but it seems to me that your "it's not much more" is the same as mine "pot odds are high".

Originally posted by maythany
For example, I would assign my opponent a 35% pushing range and I would see what hands are profitable against that range by using a program called icmizer.

Hm, is a program that shows you ranges legal during the game? Very weird if it is.


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ghaleon
Joined: 17.10.2007

Most poker rooms have rules that list programs that are not allowed to use when client is running. For example pokerstars has such info page. Though I am not sure if it's really updated, because using e.g. sngwizard is not possible with it's full functions when pokerstars client is running. Well I think sngwizard handles such detection automatically and limits its functions. So that is probably reason its listed there.

This hand you should be folding. Villain looks pretty strong when he 3bb raise here with 10bb stack. He is quite rarely folding even versus SB. Versus us he is never folding and with our hand we are either way behind or little bit ahead most of time.


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He might have been 3bb raising all the time with no reason at all, considering my limit :) I can't remember now.

It's still a bit weird how the rebound BB chart says I should push (1 of the 4 bronze charts). I thought that charts are designed tighter, not looser :f_confused:


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ghaleon
Joined: 17.10.2007

Well call (or shove in this case) is not unreasonable, but you really need loose and aggro reads on villain. As default I am definitely folding this. Are you sure you read this chart correctly? You take account the fact that villain is risking 10bb basically when he raises. Well perhaps he folds sometimes versus SB, but I would assume it to be quite rare sight.

What variables does this chart count on?

Anyway if we assume villain to open 35% range and call everytime this hand would become marginally profitable shove.


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The rebound chart says that every time we face action from the BU being at BB, we can 3-bet push with A2o when we have 6 or less bb.

But I see what you are saying. I also find that people at this limit do not usually raise from BU 64s, when 3 players are still in game. Though I do :) But min-raise and only against very tight opponents.


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