Last Chance Saloon: 6max Cash - Week 3 review and NL5!

good luck with the cashgames! and ofc keep having fun in 2013

I can't understand why this is your Last Chance Saloon. You've got 15 years to go before you reach the age at which I learnt the rule of this game. Cut yourself some slack. It's much harder than chess.

I've been around the block long enough JB and have very little to show for it. A couple of MTT binks (€2k in total) which covers any losses I've made elsewhere.

But from a learning point of view - I am still making the same silly mistakes too many times. Like for instance - a few minutes ago here's a hand for the "mistake tin"

PokerStars Zoom No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

Button ($2.02)
SB ($3.47)
HollyMichelle (BB) ($2)
UTG ($3.56)
MP ($1.63)
CO ($2.27)

Preflop: HollyMichelle is BB with A, Q
4 folds, SB bets $0.06, HollyMichelle calls $0.04

Flop: ($0.12) Q, 4, 3 (2 players)
SB bets $0.08, HollyMichelle raises to $0.20, SB calls $0.12

Turn: ($0.52) A (2 players)
SB checks, HollyMichelle bets $0.44, SB calls $0.44

River: ($1.40) 2 (2 players)
SB bets $1.46, HollyMichelle calls $1.30 (All-In)

Total pot: $4 | Rake: $0.14

Villains river bet screams "Na na na na I made my flush!" I know this and what do I ??

Hey, good luck with your challenge.

I read your thread this morning and came away wondering if you put your opponents on ranges regularly? For example, not being sure what to do with AK preflop or QQ on that 3-flush board, etc, etc.

The answers are there in the ranges you give the other person - what does he have now, what will he do if I call/raise, how do the EVs compare? As you haven't been playing 6max for long you're no doubt pretty unsure of these things but going through every hand you play and making an educated guess will help your intuitive sense a ton.

Don't just think "can double-gutters be called on the turn?" think, what is villain's range? what will he call if I hit? what will he fold if I miss? is the EV I get from those last two questions greater than 0?

Sorry if I'm way off and you're an EV addict already but hopefully it's of some use.

Thank you for your post DeetM

Absolute soul read on your part! Ranges is something that I have always struggled with. In fact I don't have a grasp on it at all. So I had a look at our articles and I've found this:

http://www.pokerstrategy.com/strategy/bss/1719/1/

Time to get back to work. Looks like it is going to take me a long time to even read this and understand it even it it's most basic form.

Wish me luck and thanks again!

^^^ Regarding the above, I have decided that I'm going to print out this article and look over it on my lunch breaks over the coming days at work. When I'm at home I don't really get the opportunity for quiet time ♦

------------------

So the 1st day of 2013 has passed and I've hit a few milestones.

- 3,500 hands
- $200 BR
- ~$20 in profit

1,000 hands today but this is not going to be a regular occurance. At this point, or at least for the month of January I will aim for 500 hands a day. Most of these will be played in the early morning when I'm most alert and have the quiet time that is necessary!

Thanks to the extra time off over the past 4 days I pretty much am playing chartless right now. I'm still making plenty of mistakes post flop and getting myself into silly situations so a long way to go!

Some revised January goals

[ ] 15,000 hands
[ ] ChromeStar on PokerStars

SilverStar is way to much of a stretch playing NL2. I picked up 10VPP for the day today (Bronze level last month) and on average I would need 16+

Peace out!

I would call the jam. If he did hit a higher set Im quite sure he would play it slower and try to extract more value from you instead of making a jam. Most of the time i believe you will see either Jx of spades, 109 of spades, 98 of spades, might be some other flushdraws like Ax or Kx or maybe just AJ or two pairs where he hope you to call with a flushdraw. This is just my generalization since we have no stats or empirical evidence

sidenote: Good song choice in intro

Originally posted by Gadgaard
I would call the jam. If he did hit a higher set Im quite sure he would play it slower and try to extract more value from you instead of making a jam. Most of the time i believe you will see either Jx of spades, 109 of spades, 98 of spades, might be some other flushdraws like Ax or Kx or maybe just AJ or two pairs where he hope you to call with a flushdraw. This is just my generalization since we have no stats or empirical evidence

sidenote: Good song choice in intro

Yep villain did indeed have 9 :spade:8 thank you for your thought process also

I'm not a huge Guns n' Roses fan but I thought the song was quite apt for the blog ♦

Experience has told me that when they jam here they [mostly] have it. It's these situations at these limits that players tend to tell me what they have. It's a fold for me unless I have good info the player has shown down a bluff or two like this before, which takes a significant history of course - or if villain has shown to be donking around a lot.

Don't be fretting a bout all that silver/gold/aluminium/copper/laminate flooring type stuff, just get the play correct and all that will fall into your lap; well maybe not the aluminium but whatever... Same goes for volume, since quality outweighs quantity.

Hope Mrs G an mini-me are doing well.

More wise words from Mal

Here's a doozie!

What do you do here and why?

PokerStars Zoom No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

Button ($1.39)
HollyMichelle (SB) ($2)
BB ($3.38)
UTG ($3.64)
MP ($1.94)
CO ($1.44)

Preflop: HollyMichelle is SB with A, A
UTG bets $0.06, 3 folds, HollyMichelle raises to $0.20, 1 fold, UTG calls $0.14

Flop: ($0.42) 7, 10, 5 (2 players)
HollyMichelle bets $0.36, UTG raises to $0.72, HollyMichelle ???

Originally posted by HollyMichelle
More wise words from Mal

Here's a doozie!

What do you do here and why?

PokerStars Zoom No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

Button ($1.39)
HollyMichelle (SB) ($2)
BB ($3.38)
UTG ($3.64)
MP ($1.94)
CO ($1.44)

Preflop: HollyMichelle is SB with A, A
UTG bets $0.06, 3 folds, HollyMichelle raises to $0.20, 1 fold, UTG calls $0.14

Flop: ($0.42) 7, 10, 5 (2 players)
HollyMichelle bets $0.36, UTG raises to $0.72, HollyMichelle ???

Usually call 3bet pf and minraise otf means a set, but it depends a lot on the opponent..

Originally posted by gadget51
Experience has told me that when they jam here they [mostly] have it. It's these situations at these limits that players tend to tell me what they have. It's a fold for me unless I have good info the player has shown down a bluff or two like this before, which takes a significant history of course - or if villain has shown to be donking around a lot.

There's a difference about how they jam. Yes, if it was a reraise jam i would fold aswell. If the flop was 3 spades i would fold aswell. However with this flop texture (so many draws for flush and straights), and the way the opponent plays, I'd snap call here. Besides hero already block the lowest set combo. This screams 2 pairs, flushdraw or a combo like jx of spades.

A good way of approaching this spot is to figure out how many combos villain has of stuff that's beating you then see how much stuff he needs to be value-betting worse/bluffing with to make your call/raise -EV.

i) What range does villain get to the flop with? How many combos?

ii) Fair assumption for the player population at these stakes is that they're often raising the flop with everything that beats you so take all of those (admittedly reads would be useful, particularly because of bet-size) and figure out how many combos there are in his range.

iii) Then figure out how much villain needs to be worse than you to make not folding +EV for you. He definitely won't have these hands 100% of the time.

iv) What % of the time does he have to have them for you not to fold? Is that realistic for this player?

v) Then of course figure out whether raising is better than calling...

vi) Was the hand villain turned up with in your range? If yes, nice one, if no, can you figure out why that hand was in his range and why he played it that way? What does it tell you about him?

Originally posted by HollyMichelle
More wise words from Mal

Here's a doozie!

What do you do here and why?

PokerStars Zoom No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

Button ($1.39)
HollyMichelle (SB) ($2)
BB ($3.38)
UTG ($3.64)
MP ($1.94)
CO ($1.44)

Preflop: HollyMichelle is SB with A, A
UTG bets $0.06, 3 folds, HollyMichelle raises to $0.20, 1 fold, UTG calls $0.14

Flop: ($0.42) 7, 10, 5 (2 players)
HollyMichelle bets $0.36, UTG raises to $0.72, HollyMichelle ???

I'd call the 3bet, jam the turn. Since he raised UTG pre you're probably looking at TT+ or broadway spades, maybe 89s for the monster draw, a lot of the time he'll think that his JJ-KK is good here when you actually have him crushed (although I concede most players will 4bet pre with QQ and KK here but some players will try to get tricky with these). If he has 77 or 55, he should be folding them pre because your stack's not large enough to make him calling your 3bet +EV, same with random raggy 2-pairs. TT is the only hand that has you beat that I can see maybe making an appearance. This is all making the assumption that the villain's competent, and not too loose. Stats would help for trying to work out ranges here.

Thing is, if he's flopped the set, unless you fold on the flop here to his 3bet, you're going to end up stacking off at some point, regardless of the turn/river, since even calling his 3bet is going to mean there's almost twice as much in the pot as there is left in your stack. If you jam the flop, JJ+ might read you for a set and get away, and a spade draw might not continue either, the only hands you'll see calling you are the sets. However, if you jam the turn instead and a spade hits, JJ+ are probably getting away, and the spade draw as well as any sets now have you beat (unless it's the A ott :P). Ideal situation imo is to jam a non-spade turn to try to get value from JJ+, but jamming the flop is still fine if you think the villain might continue with a draw. As for folding, I don't think I could fold here without reads.

You have an overpair on a draw heavy board. Just jam it in. Or even better, give us some reads on Villain. Is there any reason to fold based on what you know about him?

With no stats or anything this is pure guessing, but i think Deetm made a good post here, analyze your opponent and adapt. Try to think in ranges instead of specific hands.

I think in general you should fold in this spot. People at this limit tend not to bluff much. I'd put him on a set here or maybe some combo draw. I don't think it is profitable to continue here. Maybe if you had the ace of spades since it would block and give you a bdoor flush, or if the flop was 10d 7s 5s but i think you behind here most of the time. I doubt most villains would call your reraise preflop with 98s so i think u will run into set too many times.

at this limit bet big when you have top or overpair, when you get raised fold.

Originally posted by HollyMichelle
I've been around the block long enough JB and have very little to show for it. A couple of MTT binks (€2k in total) which covers any losses I've made elsewhere.

But from a learning point of view - I am still making the same silly mistakes too many times. Like for instance - a few minutes ago here's a hand for the "mistake tin"

PokerStars Zoom No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com

Button ($2.02)
SB ($3.47)
HollyMichelle (BB) ($2)
UTG ($3.56)
MP ($1.63)
CO ($2.27)

Preflop: HollyMichelle is BB with A, Q
4 folds, SB bets $0.06, HollyMichelle calls $0.04

Flop: ($0.12) Q, 4, 3 (2 players)
SB bets $0.08, HollyMichelle raises to $0.20, SB calls $0.12

Turn: ($0.52) A (2 players)
SB checks, HollyMichelle bets $0.44, SB calls $0.44

River: ($1.40) 2 (2 players)
SB bets $1.46, HollyMichelle calls $1.30 (All-In)

Total pot: $4 | Rake: $0.14

Villains river bet screams "Na na na na I made my flush!" I know this and what do I ??

Yeah, I folding was the better option on that board. You weren't really beating any hand that would bet the river like that with two pair, at best an aggro fish with KQ or something, but apart from that you're losing against anything else he might be shipping. Considering the pot size there is no need to throw 3/4 stack away "just in case" villain is bluffing or whatever occurred to you at the moment. And if nothing occurred except that blank "what do I do, ok, I'll call, what the hell", then that is the problem, start thinking about what you could be beating with your hand, why villain would act the way he did, etc.

AA is a special case I know, but most times, with top pair top kicker or an overpair, you bet until they raise you, then you fold...most times. I'm with jb on this one, if you have a reason to make you think you should fold do so, [but that takes experience you may not have yet after such a short time] so jam it in, you're trying to learn, not win thousands here. Take notes whatever the result and what you thought about the hand.
I wouldn't expect you to use ranges and definitely not combinations, save those for when jb turns up.

Wow guys, thank you so much yet again!

So yes, I ended up jamming and losing to a set of tens. I guess it's a good thing that it did cross my mind to fold it and that kind of thinking is doing me favours.

I started reading the article I mentioned about EV, Equity and Ranges. It is going to take me a while before I get there but it's early days yet.

This evening, I am going to play another session but I am going to THINK A LOT more in game than I have been. Put more thought into each decision post flop. I'm playing chartless now and sticking too it

Run awesome!

Really, really decent session tonight. So happy with my overall play and my thought processes and got them spot on most of the time

Yeah, it's only NL2 but happy out nonetheless!

Thanks guys for all the support, means so much