the last chance....

hey erik,thanks for the reply...

to1.: im not feeling silly or stupid but a little ashamed and impudent...(not when getting called,but when doing it)

to2.:sounds good and reasonable,but doing this for me on my own is my biggest weakness-im working out since many years,so i know what discipline means and it was always very easy for me to accumulate knowledge in training technics,nutrition stuff .because i was at least at 1 point in my life extremely interested in that stuff(working out) and i think thats the main reason why though it required a lot of discipline to reach goals it was relatively easy for me or at least doable.and thats unfortunately not the case in poker(for me).....

1. im not feeling silly or stupid but a little ashamed and impudent...(not when getting called,but when doing it)

2. and thats unfortunately not the case in poker(for me).....

1. Am I assuming correctly that you feel bad for bluffing in the first place? Like you don't deserve to win that hand for some reason? Do you ever get similar feeling in other spots at the tables as well?

2. Why do you think there is such a big difference between "regular life" and poker when it comes to?

If we know that you in other areas are able to perform well and reach your goals etc well and not in poker. There is usually an emotion there standing in your way or holding you back. Does that feel like it could be the case?

Ok both of your hands are interesting for two reasons:
1. The first hand I can see why you want to betfold 88 there, but you have to realize, if you're betfolding a hand as strong as 88, then you are probably betfolding over 75% of your cbetting range.
This is very easy for an observant opponent to play against, so here as a default I would rather not fold 88 to a raise unless I had a read my opponent was passive.
If you do fold, which is fine and lower variance, it's very important to take a note who this happened against and pay attention in the future that you're not getting abused in this spot. Your "fold cbet to raise" stat rates to be high and some people will notice this.

2. A lot of draws missed, this is a very standard call on the river. This hand is very high up in your range, and if you're folding it - again you're in a position where villain can 3barrel any two cards and turn a profit. I would want some read that my opponent was passive or didn't bluff rivers before folding this hand.

Let me know if these comments make sense. It seems as if you're playing vs people you assume don't bluff - if this is true than both folds are good, but if they are bluffing at a reasonable frequency then you are getting runover by folding such strong hands here.

hi erik,

yes,its a little bit like i dont deserve to win...

i would not say there is such a big difference between poker and regular life-i would rather say,that my poker attitude is very good comparable to things that do not completely capture me-like most things in regular life

i can tell you that there are many things standing in my way(including emotions),and i think that i know them pretty well but effectively getting them out of my way seems extremely tough....

hi bob,

to 1.: i agree and would like to know how you would continue to play that hand (for ex.: would you fold to a drawcompleting or overcard on the turn?)

to 2.: i also agree and gto wise this fold seems very bad,but do you really see enough bluffs for me to calldown? since villains range contains AK/AJ/AQ/A4/A7--AA/JJ/44/77--discountet KTs+QJs,i also assume,that he is never valuebetting worse here so doesnt he have to bluff a lot here to make calling profitable?

Originally posted by mister23
hi erik,

yes,its a little bit like i dont deserve to win...

Hey!

This might seem like a semi important issue but it is actually a major one!
Could you please explain a bit more (if you feel cool with it) about your general approach to poker and life when it comes to this topic. I feel i have a ok idea but just want to hear it from the source first. Aka you.

hey erik,
sry,but wont be able to reply till tomorrow...k?

With 88: I'd call flop (as I would with Qx and flushdraws), but with 88 I would fold to further action on any turncard. 88 is going to be towards the bottom of your flop betcalling range, so it would make sense to fold it to further action on the turn.

With AT:
Count combos, and try to count the combos of potential bluffs he has that he gets to river with - basically any 2 clubs or hearts, 56, 68,89,9T,7x,4x are all hands that could bet twice on this board and decide to bluff the river.
After you finish counting combos of value hands vs bluffs (let me know if you need help counting the combos), you will see what kind of bluffing frequency your opponent needs to have on the river to make AT a call. I'm pretty sure it's not as big as you think, but maybe you will end up with a different result than I expect and then folding is ok :-)

hey,

to bob:
here are the hands he might bluff with on the river-busted draws and some discountet 7x hands(42 combos) :
KhTh, KcTc, QhTh, QcTc, Kh9h, Kc9c, Qh9h, Qc9c, Th9h, Tc9c, Kh8h, Kc8c, Qh8h, Qc8c, Th8h, Tc8c, 9h8h, 9c8c, Kh7h, Kc7c, Qh7h, Qc7c, Th7h, Tc7c, 9h6h, 9c6c, 8h6h, 8c6c, 6h5h, 6c5c, 8d7c, 8h7c, 8c7d, 8c7h, 7d6c, 7h6c, 7c6d, 7c6h, 6h5c, 6s5c, 6c5h, 6c5s -

here are his valuehands(80 combos):
AdAh, AdAs, AhAs, QdQh, JdJh, JdJs, JhJs, 7d7s, 7d7c, 7s7c, 4d4s, 4d4c, 4s4c, AdKd, AhKh, AsKs, AdQd, AhQh, AsQs, AdJd, AhJh, AsJs, QdJd, QhJh, KdTd, KhTh, KsTs, Ad7d, Ah7h, As7s, Jd7d, Js7s, Ad4d, Ah4h, As4s, KTo, AdKh, AdKs, AdKc, AhKd, AhKs, AhKc, AsKd, AsKh, AsKc, AdQh, AdQs, AhQd, AhQs, AsQd, AsQh, AdJh, AdJs, AhJd, AhJs, AsJd, AsJh, Ad7h, Ad7s, Ah7d, Ah7s, As7d, As7h, Ad4h, Ad4s, Ah4d, Ah4s, As4d, As4h

vs that overall range i have 42% equity-if my assumptions about his range are realistic i think thats enough for me to call,right?

to erik,

i could write a lot about this,but its tough to find the right words and to not give away my whole life in a semi-public forum ;)...
to make it very short: it has a lot to do with (my) reallife,self confidence,my view on society and my way of participating...another thing i forgot to mention is,that im not able to stay concentrated/focused as much as id like to...

thanks in advance

hey.
With villain betting 11 into 16, the calculation for how much equity you need to call is:
11/(16+11*2)=28.5

So now the question you need to ask yourself to know whether to call or not is - how often is this villain going to bluff with a busted draw on the river, vs how often he is going to bet the value range that you listed.

I'd assume for starters that a lot of villains would check AK on this river, as it's a bit of a thin valuebet. Also, when counting combos, you should take into account that you hold the AdTd in your hand - villain cannot have AdKd for example (a hand you listed). But I think pokerstove took this into account when calculating equity because otherwise you wouldn't have reached 42% with the list you gave.

Here I would take out of villain's range all AK combos (12), all 2pair combos with Ad (12), KdTd (1), and AdA (2), reducing his value combos from 80 to 53.
In his bluff combos you incorrectly listed 3 KTs combos which are all nutted on the river, but I see no combos with Ad or Td, so reduce bluff combos to 39.

So now with 39 vs 52 combos - what bluffing frequency do we need to call with 28.5% pot odds?

We would need villain to be bluffing 28.5% of the times that he bets.
28.5% of 91 (39+52) is 26, so you'd need villain to be bluffing 66% of the time he gets to the river with air in order to make AdTd a call. Whether or not he does that is up to you to figure out :-)

Originally posted by mister23

i could write a lot about this,but its tough to find the right words and to not give away my whole life in a semi-public forum ;)...
to make it very short: it has a lot to do with (my) reallife,self confidence,my view on society and my way of participating...another thing i forgot to mention is,that im not able to stay concentrated/focused as much as id like to...

thanks in advance

Hey Mister23!

Well that is just common sense with all the pokerplayer degens and misfits including myself in this forum ♦

But you can always PM if you would like to touch more on this subject.
You have my word that what you says stays with me!

Cheers!

Hi mister23, Let's hope we find you well?

This is just a little reminder for you to try to find time to update your thread, which may encourage others to share their thoughts as well of course.

How are you progressing with Bootacamp, are the coachings helpful so far?

March on!

Mal.