NL400 QQ 3b pot awkard spot

well maybe my opinion is not like coach but as the preflop dynamic went you should cbet and fold to reraise as you were the agressor plus his button open raising is quite wide...

x/f is pretty bad I think. I would x/c with Qd here also because he has hands like TJs, QJs KJs etc a lot and I think he would rather raise those on the flop than just float.

You guys who advocate a c/c as a default in this spot, how do you tend to proceed OTT?

I agree with what your thought process is in the hand, BUT...IMO,

i should have c/bet flop and then evaluate next move with what villain does, if villain raises ur c/bet = fold. if villain flat ur cbet...i would fire another barrow no matter what the turn,, if he still flats you check fold river...IMO...

( the reason i would fire 2 barrows ( if villain didn't raise flop c/bet) you can rep so many hands here also... but check folding flop is bad IMO b'coz u are getting zero info , you may of had best hand !! sometimes you have to risk a little to win alot !! hope that helps friend..

so you check/fold KQ etc here?

also, did you forget to remove AK from his range?

anyway, i think his preflop range is slightly weaker than that.
also, i think you can get a huge amount of turn folds by 2barrelling(unless your perceived ranges aren't suitable), plus you have 2 quite good outs.

You really think c-betting A high flops in 3bet pots is not profitable? He only needs to fold 50% of the time since your sizing should be about 1/2 pot and i think you get way more then 50% folds on A high flops.

I think your only option is to c-bet, and if he really never folds to c-bets in 3bet pots then just c/f. I don't think c/c is ever an option. He will bet every Ax at least 2 streets and bluff with a balanced frequency as well betting at least twice with all his draws. You would really need specific reads to do anything but a one and done c-bet or a c/f.

Originally posted by MatejM47
You really think c-betting A high flops in 3bet pots is not profitable? He only needs to fold 50% of the time since your sizing should be about 1/2 pot and i think you get way more then 50% folds on A high flops.

I think your only option is to c-bet, and if he really never folds to c-bets in 3bet pots then just c/f. I don't think c/c is ever an option. He will bet every Ax at least 2 streets and bluff with a balanced frequency as well betting at least twice with all his draws. You would really need specific reads to do anything but a one and done c-bet or a c/f.

its not just 'an ace-high flop', its a super well coordinated board that hits his range really well.

its an anonymous table, cant really expect him to call light pre so thats why im thinking i dont have 50% FEQ (pretty hard to estimate but im not sure i even have 30%) so i dont see a point in betting once and c/f'ing everything but a queen on the turn.

le: and i need 33% FEQ if i bet 1/2 flop

@kruppe y, my bad, he def 4b/calls AK, prolly AQs too

Originally posted by Kruppe
so you check/fold KQ etc here?

close to 100% of the time i think, yes.

dont u think u can bet flop and turn for value? i mean theres a lot of draws that u bet too and that he can have himself, more than Ax i guess. so any blank turn is good for u and any diamond is also ok. c/f flop seams to weak and getting into the c/c spot is difficult. so only options is to bet flop, bet a lot of turns and c/f or even c/c river IMHO.

best regards

I like your x/f a lot!

I dont like x/c with QQ, do it with Ax not QQ if you think he reacts very aggro vs a check in a 3bet pot. Actually with AT/AJ, I would cbet flop and x/c turn and river on most runouts, because imo this looks weaker than x/c on the flop straight away.

Anywat, its an extremely coordinated board and he is folding extremely rarely on the flop.

As an alternative you should consider triple barreling as a bluff. He will call a lot on the flop and turn but can he call with AJ type hands on the river. Maybe not. It would work best if you have a reasonable image and if he is capable to fold top pairs. Stat that can help you is WTSD - you should be looking to triple barrel opponents with ~22% WTSD and not so much ~28% WTSD.

Interesting hand. Post some more?

As a beginner I can only see that either he has:

1. a pair of Aces
2. Flush draw
3. Bluff
4. Some hidden straight possibilities if he has like TJ

Risky, but if he has pocket aces alone then you are beat.

hope you enjoyed my terrible analysis!!

Edit: I think you showed MAJOR weakness checking on the flop and you allowed him to take full control because there were plenty of scare cards.

You can definitely bet profitably, the question should be whether or not its the most EV+ line. I think its very close and depends on how much he calls, the more he calls pre the more inclined Id be to bet. And if I bet Id c/c as youre going to get owned if you c/f here.

Originally posted by Deliveranced

le: and i need 25% FEQ if i bet 1/2 flop

Hi people I am a fish, but math in poker its really elementary.
If u put 50 to pot 100 that must work 50/(100+50)=33% of the time

Originally posted by tatartom

Originally posted by Deliveranced

le: and i need 25% FEQ if i bet 1/2 flop

Hi people I am a fish, but math in poker its really elementary.
If u put 50 to pot 100 that must work 50/(100+50)=33% of the time
You have equity when called so unless you assume you gonna get shoved on and will have to fold every time villain continues the FEQ needed is lower because of your hand EQ

I think this is the kind of spot where we have to bet twice and it feels like a merge.

Just feels a little dirty to check fold here. Prob the better of 2 evils.

Imo if you are 3bet folding on A high boards like that, then you are folding way to much and all your opponents will be exploiting you there. If you fold QQ there then you are pretty much folding your entire range even hands like AT-AJ and others. ThiS mean that you are giving up your equity and thus he shows a huge EV against you since he makes money with all his cbet bluff against almost all ur flop range and also makes money the times he has a real hand against you. You should always x/c here to balance your calling and value ranges and protect your weaker range. This to me is a major leak in your game. Also not taking initiative and c betting a flop like that for 1/3 pot is at least very EV+. Well that was just my thought in the matter. GL :)!