introducing the 5bet/folds

Originally posted by LgWz
He 2x, we 7x, he 17x, we jam 93 to win 25 so he needs to fold 37% to 42% when we shove pairs depending on what pair we have (vs TT+ AQ+ 66 would have 37.3% and 22 35.5% equity). So even if 60% of his 4bet range consists of value hands we're doing ok.

this might be a particular site/limit issue but i don't see many people 4bet calling AQ, they mostly just call a 3bet with AQ IP to avoid it. Especially when the sizing is so small and they would be getting much worse pot odds on their call. Honestly even with a 3x - 10x - 22x - 100x raisesizing progression most people seem to be uncomfortable stacking off AQ by calling an all in.

5bet shoving is done all the time with AQ, just not callin allins.

why I am saying this is because if 4bettor is calling off with AK/TT+ we have much less equity with small pairs, just around 30% and need a lot of FE

Originally posted by yegon

Originally posted by LgWz
He 2x, we 7x, he 17x, we jam 93 to win 25 so he needs to fold 37% to 42% when we shove pairs depending on what pair we have (vs TT+ AQ+ 66 would have 37.3% and 22 35.5% equity). So even if 60% of his 4bet range consists of value hands we're doing ok.

this might be a particular site/limit issue but i don't see many people 4bet calling AQ, they mostly just call a 3bet with AQ IP to avoid it. Especially when the sizing is so small and they would be getting much worse pot odds on their call. Honestly even with a 3x - 10x - 22x - 100x raisesizing progression most people seem to be uncomfortable stacking off AQ by calling an all in.

5bet shoving is done all the time with AQ, just not callin allins.

why I am saying this is because if 4bettor is calling off with AK/TT+ we have much less equity with small pairs, just around 30% and need a lot of FE

Your post is kind of contradicting itself. if they are stacking off a tighter range and fold AQ then obviously we will have more FE so we win the pot more often preflop which is great.

Originally posted by serverm07
Your post is kind of contradicting itself. if they are stacking off a tighter range and fold AQ then obviously we will have more FE so we win the pot more often preflop which is great.

I did not say anything about the width of their 4betting range - it is perfectly possible to have a 4bet range and not be exploitable by 5betting even if you only stack off AK/TT+

what i was saying is that we need less FE vs a guy who calls an AI with AQ if we want to shove small pairs and that I feel like theres not that many guys in my games that do that so people who play in games like this should probably be more carefull when calculating the fold equity they need and not just start shovin pairs into people who fold to 5bets 40% of the time