$22 1R1A - Last 16, shortstacked.

Hello Farm!

I will answer your questions in topics as you listed it.

1.1 I would not try a stop n' go move against a vilain like that. You are pretty short and the guy is deep stacked , so i do not think you will have much of a fold equity even otf .
1.2 Particulary I am not a big fan of stopngo moves on mtts. I do not think they are as effective as they should to be a profitable move.

2. I would not shove this Q9o vs this guy in this spot . Its not about icm , simply becouse you have no FE at all , and your hand does not play that well vs his opening range:

Equity Win Tie
MP2 56.08% 54.32% 1.76% { 22+, A2s+, K2s+, Q4s+, J6s+, T7s+, 97s+, 86s+, 76s, 65s, A2o+, K5o+, Q8o+, J8o+, T8o+, 98o }
MP3 43.92% 42.15% 1.76% { Q9o }

3. I would not consider ICM here since the payout is not that big af a thing. In a mtt like this I would leave ICM for FT and FT only.

4. I do not think you should push this hand vs anyone. ANy decent player who is opnening here is calling with 100% of this range. So just fold and wait for a spot where you can be the opening raiser and simply open shove the hand.

btw , If it was the FT as you are the short stack you should not worry about ICM , since the other players will be doing that for you. You should only focus and double up than start thinking about that.

Hope my thoughts were a bit helpfull.

Regards,

Hey thanks thats already rly helpfull! But if its not about icm we should push since we only need 39% eq. With this stack i dont want to skip +ev spots. We need to gamble right

Originally posted by Farmarchist
Hey thanks thats already rly helpfull! But if its not about icm we should push since we only need 39% eq. With this stack i dont want to skip +ev spots. We need to gamble right
Vs fishes s&g will work imo
ur hand is ok to s&g
Icm is not a big thing here with your stack
If hand was q8 s/ q9s erc I prefer 3 bet ai
Also I dont agree that villain with that stats will call all hands that he opwn after u shove

Hi all,

Originally posted by Farmarchist
Hey thanks thats already rly helpfull! But if its not about icm we should push since we only need 39% eq. With this stack i dont want to skip +ev spots. We need to gamble right

This. It looks like a get it in spot with Q9o. I think I prefer a stop'n'go though with Q9o. Basically you need to think about how you will get better hands to fold. I think a lot of K highs will fold incorrectly on the flop pretty often, and I don't think our opponent will typically have many worse hands than that. Never stop'n'go with a K high hand or a small pair: you will only fold out hands that you outflop.

Hi Chenny!

Learnfull spot here Never thought about making such kind of plays

Can you please go a bit more into the icm question though?
- How important is it in this spot when being short?
- Is it only important at the FT and should we just ignore it before the FT?
- How important is it on the bubble?

ty

Hi,

1.1) Is this a good spot for a stopngo?
1.2) Do we need to balance stopngo-moves or is it overrated in MTT?
2) Equitywise we pbb should go broke here but is icm important in this stage?
3) Let's assume Q9o is the bottom of out going broke range without icm in the calculation... Howmany 'kicker-ranks' should our bottom of our going-brokerange go up when we think about the icm influence? 2 ranks -> QJo+.
4) What would you push against a tighter villain?

Answering also some questions
1.1- you can find better hand, but generally if you don´t have any fold equity then it is always good to use stopandgo if you don´t want to see all 5 cards.
For example A5s is likely ahead his opening range, so I would not fold that hand, but since I have no fold equity I would rather see flop and shove most flops (ofcourse check sometimes on Axx and 55x ♦) to fold out sometimes better hands and fold out hands that has equity against you.
1.2- very few players use that, so you don´t need to balance it (also very rarely you get that situation where it is reasonable to use stop and go
2-3- I would personally fold Q9, since we always sustain fold equity and find likely next 8 hands better spots where to get all-in. ICM does not make that huge part imo
4- I would get all-in 22+, A8+, QJ+ (likely use stop and go some cases)

Can you please go a bit more into the icm question though?
- How important is it in this spot when being short?
- Is it only important at the FT and should we just ignore it before the FT?
- How important is it on the bubble?
1- to me it depends if I´m dead last or are there also other shortstacks. If I don´t see someone busting out in next few hands then imo ICM should not count in my decisions and I´m usually always playing for 1st
2- Before FT players would usually tighten up, so you can get away stealing more pots pre-flop (both raises and 3-bets). Just don´t overdo/overthink that you should risk 30bb 4-bet shoving player who has made some plays.
3- to me bubble is most important. I would likely not going to fold big hands, but I would rather not steal some pots pre-flop and wait one orbit to make sure I´m ITM (for example if I have 15bb I would likely consider folding KJo/KTs/A9s from MP, rather than raise/folding these hands)

best regards,

Can you confirm this chenny?

Originally posted by Kaitz20
Hi,

1.1) Is this a good spot for a stopngo?
1.2) Do we need to balance stopngo-moves or is it overrated in MTT?
2) Equitywise we pbb should go broke here but is icm important in this stage?
3) Let's assume Q9o is the bottom of out going broke range without icm in the calculation... Howmany 'kicker-ranks' should our bottom of our going-brokerange go up when we think about the icm influence? 2 ranks -> QJo+.
4) What would you push against a tighter villain?

Answering also some questions
1.1- you can find better hand, but generally if you don´t have any fold equity then it is always good to use stopandgo if you don´t want to see all 5 cards.
For example A5s is likely ahead his opening range, so I would not fold that hand, but since I have no fold equity I would rather see flop and shove most flops (ofcourse check sometimes on Axx and 55x ♦) to fold out sometimes better hands and fold out hands that has equity against you.
1.2- very few players use that, so you don´t need to balance it (also very rarely you get that situation where it is reasonable to use stop and go
2-3- I would personally fold Q9, since we always sustain fold equity and find likely next 8 hands better spots where to get all-in. ICM does not make that huge part imo
4- I would get all-in 22+, A8+, QJ+ (likely use stop and go some cases)

Can you please go a bit more into the icm question though?
- How important is it in this spot when being short?
- Is it only important at the FT and should we just ignore it before the FT?
- How important is it on the bubble?
1- to me it depends if I´m dead last or are there also other shortstacks. If I don´t see someone busting out in next few hands then imo ICM should not count in my decisions and I´m usually always playing for 1st
2- Before FT players would usually tighten up, so you can get away stealing more pots pre-flop (both raises and 3-bets). Just don´t overdo/overthink that you should risk 30bb 4-bet shoving player who has made some plays.
3- to me bubble is most important. I would likely not going to fold big hands, but I would rather not steal some pots pre-flop and wait one orbit to make sure I´m ITM (for example if I have 15bb I would likely consider folding KJo/KTs/A9s from MP, rather than raise/folding these hands)

best regards,

1.2: no, with 1 SPR on the flop he's obviously not folding any pairs. So when we stop and go a hand like A5s, what we're doing is forcing our opponent to fold all his worse hands (we have 75% against these often on the flop!) Even king highs are very marginal.

2-3: well we have the pot odds ot get it in if our opponent shoved, so I would look to not fold Q9o.