Originally posted by jbpatzer
Lol. So many pictures of me. I don't really do jumping out of my chair or pointing fingers....I tend to emote with my eyebrows. I do remember the hand in the book ofc. And I was planning to c/r the turn. Idk. It's a tough old game.
That is not true, being english, I am sure you once showed more emotion like dropping your teaspoon but that was very long ago when we were still young.
No more comments on the hand? 
Crokid, you can still share your opinion. It helps to think about it and then compare your view with other ones. 
I converted 235 FPPs into $11 in the usual way tonight, and this hand put a smile on my face, especially the things that BB said to BTN afterwards. 
PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, 0 Tournament, 50/100 Blinds 20 Ante (4 handed) - PokerStars Converter Tool from http://www.flopturnriver.com
UTG (t135)
Button (t860)
jbpatzer (SB) (t815)
BB (t1,190)
jbpatzer's M: 3.54
Preflop: jbpatzer is SB with 2♥, A♦
UTG bets t115 (All-In), Button raises to t200, 1 fold, BB raises to t300, Button raises to t450, BB raises to t600, Button calls t150
Flop: (t1,445) 2♠, K♠, 4♦ (3 players, 1 all-in)
BB bets t570 (All-In), Button calls t240 (All-In)
Turn: (t1,925) J♦ (3 players, 3 all-in)
River: (t1,925) 7♣ (3 players, 3 all-in)
Total pot: t1,925
Button had 7♦, A♠ (one pair, sevens).
BB had 10:club:, A♣ (high card, Ace).
UTG had K♣, K♦ (three of a kind, Kings).
Outcome: Button won t1,450, UTG won t475
A further hypothetical question about the Hand.
Suppose the turn is a blank, say a 5.
If we went for a bet F, would you consider c/r on the turn to get value from floats not willing to call? Aces that check back but would call can still call one bet on the river.
Originally posted by InsanityOnFire
Suppose the turn is a blank, say a 5.
If we went for a bet F, would you consider c/r on the turn to get value from floats not willing to call?
If we are targeting floats, we would check/call T and check/raise R. By check/raising the T we just fold out floats, wouldn't we?
Originally posted by TwiceT
No more comments on the hand?I read TT's comments but I will try to give my thoughts like I haven't seen TT's post. Preflop if it was a complete unknown but somewhat decent player I would imagine a range of PP(22-1010), suited and some offsuit broadways together with some SC, 45 and above. On the F i think I would bet similar to JB. On the turn I think I would ussualy go for a c/r with my monsters to inflate the pot. Since I read TT's post I now see that I have to think more about villains range and how it changes with the line I take at given moment.My ussual play with big hands go smth like this: bet the F cause villain can call us with many hand combinations, then on scare cards c/c to induce or to just look weak and c/r all the rest. In case turn goes c/c I like betting small, maybe even low as few bb to get him to call with weak range or induce a spazzy play and go for a min 4bet over a small 3bet and ship on bigger 3bets.
There are many diff. lines and possibilities like TT explained.
TT's post got me thinking how poorly I acess thinking about hands in depth and this was an eye opener in a way for me.
Eh it's different, we can target floats still by check/raising the turn. Explanation: if villain isn't really one to follow through with floats by betting them on the river, we're able to maximize value from his full range by check/raising the turn. We do this because his floats, bluffcatchers, weak SD value and nutted hands will bet vs a check, and a c/r only folds out the float part of his range. I don't think we can say some line specifically targets only a portion of his range: we can only look at his entire range until such time as we can narrow it.
What part of his range is bluffcathers =? weak SDvalue? If you mean 88-99 and some aces, I would assume he folds it to a bet - check/raise line, rightfully afraid of facing the riverbet.
i) I have finished my marking.
ii) I am now silver, because I am such a balla.
iii) Last night I won some money playing Zoom, even though I got it in with AA v AK, ran it twice, and got three-quartered.
And that is all.
I got home from work yesterday to find that my daughter had written a story for me. In it, the heroine goes out and buys some strawberries from an old lady. The next day, she goes out to see the old lady again, who promptly denies having ever sold her any strawberries. Swords are drawn, and the heroine kills the old lady before going home to eat her strawberries.
Should I interpret this as meaning that my daughter is:
a) A talented teller of fairy tales, in the style of a modern day Grimm brother?
b) A psychopathic axe murderer in the making, in the style of Christian Bale in American Psycho?
c) A stickler for the truth, whatever the cost, in the style of Richard Dawkins?
After listening to this lovely story, I went to the gym, which left me feeling rather decrepit and prompted an alarming conversation with mrsjb about pubic hair. Apparently her experience of nursing old people suggests that once you reach a certain age there's a high chance of suffering from bald patches in your pubes. This had never even occurred to me before. It's one thing to contemplate losing the hair on ones head, but the prospect of having to do a Bobby Charlton style sweepover in my nether regions fills me with dread. Maybe if I go to the gym often enough my hairies can cling on for a while longer?
I have a couple of poker hands for you too, which will probably come as some light relief. In neither case do I have any real reads on my opponents. The player pool for Zoom is much bigger than that for Rush, so I'm finding that it's taking me a while to accumulate serious stats, especially as I'm only playing two tables at the moment. I think I may make this three soon, as that may be optimal for me. I'm also considering playing a few normal tables for the next few days so that Stars can shower some of their 100 billionth hand goodies on me. I'm guaranteed to get something, right?
1) This hand is similar to the previous hand that I posted, although my absolute hand strength is somewhat stronger. I can't see that there's a better way to play it, but the point it makes, I think, is that it's so much easier to play in position than out of position.
PokerStars | No Limit Hold'em Cash - $0.25/$0.50 - 6 players
Hand #99667402459 - delivered by Pokeit
Hero: $69.15 (138.3 BBs)
CO: $54.47 (108.9 BBs)
MP: $177.32 (354.6 BBs)
UTG: $54.99 (110 BBs)
BB: $50.00 (100 BBs)
SB: $50.00 (100 BBs)
Pre-Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BTN with 8♣ 8♠
3 players fold, Hero raises $0.75 to $1.25, SB folds, BB calls $0.75
Flop: 8♦ 3♥ 3♦ ($2.75) (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $2.00, BB calls $2.00
Turn: 6♠ ($6.75) (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $5.00, BB calls $5.00
River: 2♥ ($16.75) (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $14.25, BB raises $14.25 to $28.50, Hero raises $32.40 to $60.90 ALL-IN, BB calls $13.25 ALL-IN
Final Pot: ($97.75 | rake $2.50) (2 players)
Hero shows 8♣ 8♠ (a full house, Eights full of Threes) +$47.75 BB mucks 4♦ 5♥ (a straight, Six high) -$50.00
2) And speaking of how hard it is to play out of position, it just gets worse when you're >250b deep. Although my PMP level had reached critical when he raised the flop, I called with the intention of running away and crying in a cupboard if he bet the turn. Maybe while I still have my pubes I should have been man enough to check/call him down, but as it was, my inner little girl took over. At least I had a plan. 
PokerStars | No Limit Hold'em Cash - $0.25/$0.50 - 6 players
Hand #99667719390 - delivered by Pokeit
BTN: $132.21 (264.4 BBs)
CO: $84.00 (168 BBs)
MP: $214.86 (429.7 BBs)
UTG: $53.23 (106.5 BBs)
Hero: $139.92 (279.8 BBs)
SB: $78.91 (157.8 BBs)
Pre-Flop: ($0.75) Hero is BB with K♦ K♣
UTG folds, MP raises $1.00 to $1.50, 3 players fold, Hero raises $3.50 to $5.00, MP calls $3.50
Flop: 4♠ 6♦ 7♥ ($10.25) (2 players)
Hero bets $5.50, MP raises $7.75 to $13.25, Hero calls $7.75
Turn: 7♣ ($36.75) (2 players)
Hero checks, MP bets $21.00, Hero folds
If she will get a watermark on her business card, you are in trouble my friend. British Psycho in the making ♦
Lol nice story about your plan, but why don't you just analyze what player he is, look at his stats, play the board texture etc ... ? "I dont have many stats" is not enough of an excuse, there are always infos.
You should sit down and do some serious analysis. 85s is not in MPs range, so its 67 (unlikely combo wise), 66, 77 (1 combo only), 44 you lose to. What was the timing of his bets? 67 and 77 wont bet fast and most likely will take a few seconds and then bet even smaller.
Any more thoughts on this hand or are you happy with your plan on crying in a cupboard?
Maybe it wasn't dread but dreadlocks.
It must be nice to be good enough to fold there without blinking, I just can't see why on the face of it.
Originally posted by TwiceT
Lol nice story about your plan, but why don't you just analyze what player he is, look at his stats, play the board texture etc ... ? "I dont have many stats" is not enough of an excuse, there are always infos.You should sit down and do some serious analysis. 85s is not in MPs range, so its 67 (unlikely combo wise), 66, 77 (1 combo only), 44 you lose to. What was the timing of his bets? 67 and 77 wont bet fast and most likely will take a few seconds and then bet even smaller.
Any more thoughts on this hand or are you happy with your plan on crying in a cupboard?
It seems pretty sensitive to how many overpairs I think he bets the turn with. I still feel happier folding on the flop tbh. It saves me making a big mistake, and there are bigger edges to be had elsewhere at NL50. It's not that aggressive a game, and I suspect that not all of the draws that I put in his range will bet the turn. Maybe on NL200+?
Board: 4♠6♦7♥ 7♣
Equity Win Tie
MP2 28.39% 27.37% 1.02% { KK-TT, 88-44, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s }
BB 71.61% 70.59% 1.02% { KdKc }
Board: 4♠6♦7♥ 7♣
Equity Win Tie
MP2 36.12% 34.77% 1.35% { KK-QQ, 88-44, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s }
BB 63.88% 62.53% 1.35% { KdKc }
If you put in 78, you also need to add 45, 55, 56.
So far you only added a value range ... doesn't he sometimes raise ThJh on the F? For fold equity and backdoors? What about AdJd?
Any infos on timing? Any stats or none?
Originally posted by TwiceT
If you put in 78, you also need to add 45, 55, 56.So far you only added a value range ... doesn't he sometimes raise ThJh on the F? For fold equity and backdoors? What about AdJd?
Any infos on timing? Any stats or none?
55 already in.
He might raise ThJh or AdJd on the flop, but maybe he doesn't bet those on the turn?
No stats. Turn bet fairly quickly.
Board: 4♠6♦7♥ 7♣
Equity Win Tie
MP2 32.88% 31.77% 1.11% { KK-QQ, 88-44, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, 54s, AdJd, JhTh }
BB 67.12% 66.01% 1.11% { KdKc }
I suppose I shouldn't really fold, but omfg we were sooooo deep. It's scary outside the cupboard.
It's not soo deep. Even against a very strong range you are still clearly priced in. Also I dont think 67, 66, 77 bets quickly on the turn, its a spot where he clearly has the nuts and needs to think about your range (mostly overpairs) and how much he has to bet in order to get you AI on the R.
The 7 on the T is one of the best cards for you and we still fold. If thats your preferred line, you should fold F already. However, I would clearly call F, call T and make a very smart R decision with all infos I can gather.
Originally posted by TwiceT
It's not soo deep. Even against a very strong range you are still clearly priced in. Also I dont think 67, 66, 77 bets quickly on the turn, its a spot where he clearly has the nuts and needs to think about your range (mostly overpairs) and how much he has to bet in order to get you AI on the R.The 7 on the T is one of the best cards for you and we still fold. If thats your preferred line, you should fold F already. However, I would clearly call F, call T and make a very smart R decision with all infos I can gather.
Next time I fold the flop. When I grow up, I'll play it the TT way.
