Could timings be used as a tell?

Moved to a more relevant board for you HellToupee.

Yes, timings can be used as a tell but the more tables you play the more difficult it is to keep track. That is why it is always important to play less tables at the beginning and add some more as your experience grows

Yes timing is very important. If I see a quick raise or call, it tells me that the hand is probably strong.

Seriously the guy has had a full round to decide what to do with his hand. By the time it is his turn he should know...
If he takes too long, he is STILL deliberating?

In live yes, in online you never know if they are thinking hard, munching on chips or doing god knows what else so timing tells aren't very useful online.

Originally posted by LendarTecho
Yes timing is very important. If I see a quick raise or call, it tells me that the hand is probably strong.

I usually see it as the opposite.
Quick snap-call = nothing of importance.
Usually a person thinks whether they should be slow-playing or raising when they've got a strong hand, so it takes some slight hesitation.

In my experience snapcall from fish = 1 pair or a FD where the player knows before you even bet: "yeah, I have this, so I'll call at least one bet." Beware of competent players who do this, especially if they had time to think before you put your bet in. It may be the nuts...

Originally posted by SheepMoose

Originally posted by LendarTecho
Yes timing is very important. If I see a quick raise or call, it tells me that the hand is probably strong.

I usually see it as the opposite.
Quick snap-call = nothing of importance.
Usually a person thinks whether they should be slow-playing or raising when they've got a strong hand, so it takes some slight hesitation.

Me too. I sometimes tank a little on the river OOP when I plan on check/folding to try and get players to check behind to see a free showdown.

One thing I have noticed on micros if a nitty reg raises PF, I call, flop comes something like 984 2suit and he superuberturbosnap checks most of the time he's just giving up and moving on.

Snapcalls against Cbets many times turn out to be weak.

Maybe I should've clarified - I was referring to taking the practice of noticing if a guy snap calls or deliberates for a long time, etc., and actually timing people with a digital stopwatch or something - surely this would probably be a lot of work ... I was just trying to explore the idea that these exact measurements over a significant amount of time might begin to reveal some predicatable patterns.

Lets say you study one villian and find out that anytime he flat calls, he never takes longer than 6 seconds to act, or whenever he has a monster hand, 95% of the time he takes no fewer than 10 sec to act - stuff like that.

I guess it would be too time comsuming since Hand Histories don't recognize this level of detail, and your calculations would have to be done manually, live, and, on an individual basis.

Just brainstorming here, as I was trying to figure out ways that I could utilize the context density of online poker to give me the most info possible on opponents' play.

cheers

Originally posted by HellToupee
Maybe I should've clarified - I was referring to taking the practice of noticing if a guy snap calls or deliberates for a long time, etc., and actually timing people with a digital stopwatch or something - surely this would probably be a lot of work ... I was just trying to explore the idea that these exact measurements over a significant amount of time might begin to reveal some predicatable patterns.

Going into extreme precision is likely to cloud the issue.
Is he always slow because his internet connection sucks most of the time?
Is he aware of timing tells and always counts to 3 before clicking?
How accurate can you be with a stopwatch, anyway?

I'd suggest watching one or two players at your table -- say one on the right of you and one on the left.

See if you can notice any pattern.

Props to you if you actually have the perseverance to do this!

Best of luck,
--VS

Originally posted by metza
In live yes, in online you never know if they are thinking hard, munching on chips or doing god knows what else so timing tells aren't very useful online.

Totally agree, given someone can be multitabling, maybe doing something else while also playing poker online, there are too many factors to considerate timing a tell.

Originally posted by LendarTecho
Yes timing is very important. If I see a quick raise or call, it tells me that the hand is probably strong.

I agree with that. Of course you cant take every move as a tell but the above is mostly right.

If someone doing any action super fast it is always strong.

At what sort of table? At what stakes? At what game?

I grant you that, at the more serious end of the community, timing may indeed have the meaning which my books - and some of these posts - assure me it does, but, at OUR end???

Guys, when I take a long time to make a move, it's because

# there is action on my other tables;

# I am pouring my coffee;

# I am scrambling back from the bathroom;

# my cat needs food;

# somebody nice is getting her boobies out on the TV;

# any two or more of the above.

Soooo .... whatever .....

And if it's a fast move it sometimes means I sneezed and misclicked ....

that really only tells us that u dont pay attention to the tables. So that is maybe also why u havent discovered the fact that timing tells CAN be used..

Originally posted by martinemem
that really only tells us that u dont pay attention to the tables. So that is maybe also why u havent discovered the fact that timing tells CAN be used..

You wouldn't have said that if you saw what goes on at the tables I play at. They are even bigger noobs than moi, plus there is not much action at my SNG stakes on i-poker. Two tables + boobies works, or three tables without boobies.

Timing tells per se are pretty useless nowadays imo. Sooo many people multi table it's hard to know if they used a lot of time or not.

Me personally I use more time when I only got a couple of tables going, but then i'm also surfing the net, reading forums, gambling etc at the same time.

If you see a particular player doing certain things the same probs worth making a note and see if it really is a tell, otherwise spend the time concentrating on bet sizing and what position peeps are playing from, far more useful info imo

As many people has noted, timing tells are not that trustworthy when so many players multitable and even more players try to fake them. But when you are multitabling against another multitabling player, you can pick up quite many timing tells from him which can say something about his hand strength.

Originally posted by Phenomenomzor
As many people has noted, timing tells are not that trustworthy when so many players multitable and even more players try to fake them. But when you are multitabling against another multitabling player, you can pick up quite many timing tells from him which can say something about his hand strength.

Also when a multitabler snap folds to steals you can usually know that his range is static and he's not gonna be adjusting to steals.