is it possible to reserve any for next block? can ship early
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My 2 cents on changing the stacking rules as a backer.
I am happy to continue as per the current rules if LT3 mixes 60's and 100's at 50/50 as it looks like it is going to be. Something to consider if the stake was only 100's or higher where his edge is going to be smaller.
Let's not forget that by adding the 100's he will be able to table select more.
I do think, as suggested by LT3, that increasing the number of games to 15k or even 20k is a good idea though. However I am not for increasing the overall stake to $15k.
Obviously it is a risky investment, but so it is when we play ourselves. If you look at the backer's sides only obviously you could add a lot to make this deal hugely +ev and risk free. However this is not beeing fair on LT3 imo.
So yeah I would like to see the number of games increased to 15k or 20k as it doesn't change anything for LT3 but reduces variance for the backers.
Im interestedOriginally posted by Schrader69
is it possible to reserve any for next block? can ship early
+1
I did a quick calculations and it showed me lessthanthree made more than $10k from rakeback (risk free for him).
I will drop my percentage after this stake if he wont cover loses with rakeback for the next staking. I understand his point, it will just not be to risky for me to invest right now.
It's called staking for a reason, it's not charity. Ofc there is a risk involved, if there wouldn’t be, he would not need staking. a reason, it's not charity. I'm down for 15k games, but doesn't really matter that much.
Originally posted by lessthanthreee
Hi guys,1) make-up will never be a part of the deal, sorry.
2) increasing stoploss is fine by me if enough of the backers are happy with it. I am happy to take on any excess percentage myself.
3) I need to increase my ABI to make SNE. I will be playing 100s until the end of the year, starting next week. Dropping 100s will not be an option at any point.If i am desperate for backers and do not get enough interest I will consider including some small % of rake-back. I have sufficient backers and personal BR to not have to do this just yet, but there may be a time where I include this in a deal.
I understand this is high risk, but I (as a player) am also one of the lowest risk investments you can make on this forum.
I am a proven winner over a huge sample size.
I have been a professional player on my own $ for 3 years and simply sell action to reduce stress levels.
I have made almost a dozen stakes before on these forums and have never scammed.---
The thread will open up in a few days and I have 6.4k/10k shipped and confirmed from current backers. I will be doing this new stake even if I do not sell 100% because I will simply cover the excess myself.
Thanks for the prompt reply Lt3
I do acknowledge that you are one of the most reputable stakee in this forum. And ofc you are a +ev investment
My suggestions were to improve the stake for both parties as the games you play have a very significant variance as edges are thin (1-2% ROI)
I am happy that you agree with at least some of my suggestions.
Increasing the number of games seems like a good idea.
What worries me the most is the stop loss limit.
Do you think 100 buy-ins are enough for hypers?
Whats your opinion on the ideal stake amount?
I remember you saying that you had a -20k downswing on the 100s recently.
I strongly believe that a bigger stake amount will help cope variance.
Looking forward to your reply
here's my 2 cents on the matter:
thanks maritsula for your input and voicing your concerns! I had a few of my own and seeing that i'm not the only one definitely makes me 'feel better' (earlier i thought that maybe im just being 'paranoid' :))
- my suggestions:
- increase the number of games to 15k (20k anybody?) - as somebody already pointed it out it doesn't change much for you, <3, but makes the backers sleep a lil better.
- increase the stoploss to 12k (rough calculation of 150BI x 80$ av BI) or maybe even 15k if that suits most people taking part in the deal - as it was already mentioned numerous times the new deal is gonna be even more vulnurable to substantial downswings so this way we all kinda make it less probable that it's gonna finish too early due to a nasty downswing and even if a 100BI downer occurs there's gonna be plenty of 'time' to climb out of it if we all agree on the longer distance mentioned in the paragraph above.
- I would really like for you, <3, to take some % yourself (25%? 33% I guess thats something we can all discuss in the following posts) - ive noticed that nobody mentioned it before so maybe i'm way off when i ask for it. My reasoning - I'm the last person that would ever think that you will not give a sh*t abt playing your A game during the stake when youve sold 100% but at the same time i'm a bit worried that it may happen anyway to some extent at least, on a subconcious level. Just to make sure there are no misunderstandings here - I don't think you would ever play spewy on purpose (or simply not try hard enough not to play spewy), im just saying that imo there's a chance that unintentionally that may happen, i believe thats how our brain works unfortunatelly (although i cannot obv back it up with any research results). Am i being paranoid here or does somebody else think in a similar way?
Lastly i just want to point out to everybody that may be not very happy abt <3's declining some of the proposed conditions (no makeup, not willing to drop 100s) - he's obv a very important side of this stake so he's gonna be stating his conditions as well and we need to respect that, especially that imo they make sense. Even if he's not risking his own money at the current rules he's risking sth imo far more valuable - his reputation, which imo is actually worth maybe even more than the amount of this stake. He's a 'veteran' here, a great poker plr, a very solid, proven 'horse' and as it was already pointed out his offers are probably one of the best, most +EV on this forum. Having said all that the new stake is gonna be much more risky that the previous one so I hope you, <3, understand that we have some concerns and want to tweak the agreament a bit, in a way that it actually gonna benefit both sides (I'm sure you wouldn't want this stake to finish busto, even if you don't have any own money in it).
I really hope that we can reach an agreement that is gonna more or less satisfy the most ppl involved.
cheers!
Originally posted by belthazorrrr
I really like how everyone wants to change the rules after the heater
I'm not sure i understand you correctly - what does a heater in the current stake has to do with the rules of the next one? 
thanks for the discussion guys. It is good to get these ideas out there so we can decide on terms before I put the new thread up in a few days.
There are many options I could have chosen for stoploss, games. I chose 100BIs,10k with some thought into the 'normal' swings and length of time for a stake. Here are some more options:
1. 10k stoploss, 10k games. (same)
2. 12k stoploss, 10k games.
3. 12k stoploss, 12k games.
4. 15k stoploss, 12k games.
5. 15k stoploss, 15k games.
I can also have a mandatory piece of my own action. I was thinking 20-40% depending on how big the stoploss is and how much interest I get from new investors.
Considering I have already $7k-8k confirmed for the next block with the current deal (option 1), I am reluctant to change the deal unless most (or all) of the backers are happy with a change. The problem with increasing stoploss is that this will dilute current backers % (someone who had 10% in 10k now only has 8.3% in 12k). But, there are advantages as well (more room for swings and room for me to have a piece).
In answer to the concerns about not having any of my own action, I can assure you I play every game to the fullest of my ability regardless of whether I have 0% of profits or 75%. There is no advantage to me spewing off BIs. In fact, I still get annoyed with bad losing days during the current stake (with 0% of myself) because I want to succeed for you and promote further deals.
To answer concerns about large swings in 100s. My latest swing (around 200BIs) on that limit was earlier this year. Since then I moved down completely to 60s and refocused a lot of time and energy in fixing leaks and my recent results in the 60s should be an indicator of how my game has evolved even over the last few months. I am extremely confident in my ability on the 100s, I have extensive experience at that limit with every regular and the swings. Playing those games is not a step up for me, it is a step back into my comfort zone. Can I still experience huge variance? Of course, any poker player understands that the swings can be big. But I think I have reduced the chances of such a huge 200BI swing by the work I have done since leaving the 100s a few months ago.
Is 10k stoploss enough? 15k? 20k? It is tough to say. I believe enough backers are happy with the current 10k to leave it for now.
What about 10k games? What about 15k?
Similar situation... I don't think enough people are wanting to change at the moment.
I also expect new backers (that are not reading this thread) to consider joining when I open the new thread. Of course, I want to make everyone 100% happy, but that just isn't possible when I have 20-30 people lining up for a piece. Some people won't get the optimal conditions they wanted, that is fine, no one is forcing you to back me.
As with every stake, you must make your own decisions on how +EV the deal is and whether you can afford the risk. If the risk is too high but you think it is still +EV why not just take a smaller piece? If the risk is still too high, or if you think it is -EV, you can opt out or choose not to invest.
----
If you have any individual concerns you want to discuss privately, PM me for my skype.
Originally posted by wiarygodny
Originally posted by belthazorrrr
I really like how everyone wants to change the rules after the heaterI'm not sure i understand you correctly - what does a heater in the current stake has to do with the rules of the next one?
think more
also. i made day 2 of the 700 wcoop event today. so i will be taking a few hours off the hyper grind to 1 table that like a fish. i still expect to finish off the 1200 games by wed/thurs ET
Originally posted by lessthanthreee
also. i made day 2 of the 700 wcoop event today. so i will be taking a few hours off the hyper grind to 1 table that like a fish. i still expect to finish off the 1200 games by wed/thurs ET
Nice your ranked around 75/200 with good amount of chips, GL shiiip it ![:]](https://forums.pokerstrategy.com/wp-content/uploads/wpforo/emoticons/pokerstrategy-legacy/basics/pleased.gif ":]")
Will rail you later tonight if you manage 
yeah it is definitely good to have this discussion going on. And it seems very constructive.
After re reading all posts, different concerns some backers have and LT3 point of view it seems to me that there would be a logical solution to address most/all points which is option 2 that LT3 mentionned above - i.e 12k stop loss, 12k games.
This way we:
- increase a bit the number of games that reduces a bit variance for backers and is irrelevant to LT3
- increase stop loss a bit so that we deal with bigger swings and we don't dilute too much current %.
- I suggest that LT3 gets $2k of his own action (16%) so it is more fair to some backers that think you should have some and yet LT3's share isn't too big.
- keep the $10k "sold action" so LT3 is still selling the same amount as planned.
It seems to me like a solution that addresses all the issues and yet seems fair to everybody.
However, since we are many backers on this one it would need to be agreed by all backers.
Can I suggest that all current backers post here to tell whether they would agree with the above conditions (and obviously you too LT3).
Remember that we are a group of people and that everyone will have to make an effort for the sake of going ahead, even if I believe the conditions proposed above seem to be a good compromise for everyone involved.
Originally posted by lessthanthreee
also. i made day 2 of the 700 wcoop event today. so i will be taking a few hours off the hyper grind to 1 table that like a fish. i still expect to finish off the 1200 games by wed/thurs ET
Ship it!! ♦
Is there anyone confirmed for block 2 who would be UNHAPPY with this change for next block:
$12k stoploss, 12k games, $2k res for LT3 (10k for backers)
The only real change for backers is dilution of your piece. There is still some room in the backers % to buy more if you want a bigger piece.
@Dublimax : You were the only person who said they did not want the stoploss increase to $15k. If you are OK with $12k, I think this might be a good compromise for everyone.
Originally posted by Tim64
Ship it like a pro, then you won't need the stake at all! ;-)
lol. ^^ this
Originally posted by lessthanthreee
Is there anyone confirmed for block 2 who would be UNHAPPY with this change for next block:$12k stoploss, 12k games, $2k res for LT3 (10k for backers)
The only real change for backers is dilution of your piece. There is still some room in the backers % to buy more if you want a bigger piece.
@Dublimax : You were the only person who said they did not want the stoploss increase to $15k. If you are OK with $12k, I think this might be a good compromise for everyone.
yeah I'm okay with it