55$ 99 sb vs btn 4bet

Since he`s basically unknown it`s really hard to put him on a range. If I knew he`s a reg or agressive I`d easily push. I`m usually not 3betting 99 vs BTN with the intention of folding to a 4bet. I don`t like calling, since it`s gna be a pain in the ass to play 99 oop in a 4bet pot. Folding seems weak vs BTN, we cannot 5bet/fold, so I think shoving is really our only option.

Originally posted by AceSteph
Since he`s basically unknown it`s really hard to put him on a range. If I knew he`s a reg or agressive I`d easily push. I`m usually not 3betting 99 vs BTN with the intention of folding to a 4bet. I don`t like calling, since it`s gna be a pain in the ass to play 99 oop in a 4bet pot. Folding seems weak vs BTN, we cannot 5bet/fold, so I think shoving is really our only option.

What range r u expecting villain to call us with?

Do you know the player?Is he a reg?Your table image?

You have 100 hands on him, so your image really matters here (this could be some metagame if he's a reg or something), as your percieved 3betting range will affect imenslly his 4b range plus, you're also not that deep to 5b/f, and so as much as I hate to do it, I would actually just call it, reason being that, there's very little of his range that's beaten that call there imo, even being a btn sb dynamic (unless of course he's metagaming) I would say JJ-77,AJs+,AQo+ (and this is wide imo); I'm sure the 5b shove is ev+, but I would call because his calling range is domanating you, and you actually have the odds+implied odds to just call.

And I'm not a fan of set mining oop in general, but I think if there's a situation to so it it's this one

Hi all,

I mean it's awkward that he's sizing it like this rather than straight up shoving but some people are bad and have a 4bet/fold range here. Regardless, I make it 10k pre and definitely am calling a shove, and with this sizing and now vs this sizing I do no different.

Originally posted by chenny8888
Hi all,

I mean it's awkward that he's sizing it like this rather than straight up shoving but some people are bad and have a 4bet/fold range here. Regardless, I make it 10k pre and definitely am calling a shove, and with this sizing and now vs this sizing I do no different.

Hmmm why u think in his spot is better to shove then to 4bet?
What range do u 4 bet shove I bnt spot?
When he 4 bet and I shove how much % of time he need to win so he should call (he need to call of like 53k more in like 85k pot right) so he is geting like 1,5:1 pot odds right, imo is like more then 40% of time?
Why u think is bad to 4 bet fold in btn spot, he will have like 25 bb left behind...

Originally posted by TheRebuz

Originally posted by AceSteph
Since he`s basically unknown it`s really hard to put him on a range. If I knew he`s a reg or agressive I`d easily push. I`m usually not 3betting 99 vs BTN with the intention of folding to a 4bet. I don`t like calling, since it`s gna be a pain in the ass to play 99 oop in a 4bet pot. Folding seems weak vs BTN, we cannot 5bet/fold, so I think shoving is really our only option.

What range r u expecting villain to call us with?

Something like AQ+,88+, maybe 77.

But I still think we have a lot of FE, that can make it up for, when we get called by a stronger range.

Hi all,

The odds he's getting are simply too good. I don't like 4bet/folding his spot.

I don't use 2:1, 1.5:1 etc etc (yea yea I suck), but here's my math:

he need to call 53646 more for a pot of 148402 so he needs to win 36% of the time not counting ICM tax in order to 4bet/call correctly. It's reasonable to 4bet/fold some hands here still, however I typically pick blocker hands to 4bet/fold with, so it's very very tough for me to find a fold after I've 4bet.

With the odds we're giving villain, I expect him to typically peel 77-99 vs our 3bet, so we're looking at a call range of something like (99), TT+ AQ+.

Originally posted by chenny8888
Hi all,

The odds he's getting are simply too good. I don't like 4bet/folding his spot.

I don't use 2:1, 1.5:1 etc etc (yea yea I suck), but here's my math:

he need to call 53646 more for a pot of 148402 so he needs to win 36% of the time not counting ICM tax in order to 4bet/call correctly. It's reasonable to 4bet/fold some hands here still, however I typically pick blocker hands to 4bet/fold with, so it's very very tough for me to find a fold after I've 4bet.

With the odds we're giving villain, I expect him to typically peel 77-99 vs our 3bet, so we're looking at a call range of something like (99), TT+ AQ+.

no, villain need to call of 53k more for a pot of 75k,
the pot will be pot 148k AFTER villain call off

Originally posted by TheRebuz

Originally posted by chenny8888
Hi all,

The odds he's getting are simply too good. I don't like 4bet/folding his spot.

I don't use 2:1, 1.5:1 etc etc (yea yea I suck), but here's my math:

he need to call 53646 more for a pot of 148402 so he needs to win 36% of the time not counting ICM tax in order to 4bet/call correctly. It's reasonable to 4bet/fold some hands here still, however I typically pick blocker hands to 4bet/fold with, so it's very very tough for me to find a fold after I've 4bet.

With the odds we're giving villain, I expect him to typically peel 77-99 vs our 3bet, so we're looking at a call range of something like (99), TT+ AQ+.

no, villain need to call of 53k more for a pot of 75k,
the pot will be pot 148k AFTER villain call off

So what's wrong? His risk/winning ratio is just as chenny wrote, so he needs to win 36% of the time. Since if he wins 36% of the time, he gets back 148402*0,36=~53000. And he has to call this amount, which means it's breakeven.

Thanks AceSteph!

It's because of confusion like this that I never use x:x, and always use percentage. For online poker, it's so much easier to calculate (watch while I herp-derp on the live poker tables though).