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When to pull the rebluff trigger

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YohanN7
Joined: 15.06.2009

Edit: This post should probably be in the hand evaluations forum, so if a moderator sees this, please move. Tnx

Hi, I just played this hand:

PokerStars - $0.05/$0.10 (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 24.3 BB (VPIP: 34.49, PFR: 12.36, 3Bet Preflop: 2.92, Hands: 2,590)
Hero (SB): 17.4 BB
BB: 57.3 BB (VPIP: 50.00, PFR: 34.09, 3Bet Preflop: 5.88, Hands: 45)
CO: 19.3 BB (VPIP: 15.79, PFR: 15.79, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 19)

Hero posts SB 0.2 BB, BB posts BB 0.5 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 0.7 BB) Hero has 9♣ T♥

fold, fold, Hero raises to 1 BB, BB calls 0.5 BB

Flop: (2 BB, 2 players) 7♣ 6♥ A♥
Hero bets 0.5 BB, BB raises to 1 BB, Hero raises to 1.5 BB, BB calls 0.5 BB

My read on this guy was that he'd probably not raise right away on the flop with a pair of aces or better. Therefore I have an opportunity to blow him off a small pair (or spike my gutter + overs to the middle).

Turn: (5 BB, 2 players) A♣
Hero bets 1 BB, BB calls 1 BB

River: (7 BB, 2 players) 2♣
Hero bets 1 BB,

Now my opponent tanks ...

BB calls 1 BB

... and calls.

I include results here to show an example of one holding I "target" when rebluffing:
Hero shows 9♣ T♥ (One Pair, Aces) (Pre 45%, Flop 35%, Turn 23%)
BB shows K♥ 6♣ (Two Pair, Aces and Sixes) (Pre 55%, Flop 65%, Turn 77%)
BB wins 8.6 BB

If my opponent doesn't fold here, the rebluff loses quite a bit in value.

Being result oriented, I asked myself "Should I have check-raised on the turn instead?"

Well, is a delayed rebluff sometimes preferable over going for it right away? I think that would have been the way I'd play with a good A, but not always.


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11 replies
firsttsunami
Joined: 23.01.2006

Retrospectively and resultoriented your bluff wasnt good as he seems to be raising really light with pairs but he cant let them go. But that was just meant for your adjustment afterwards. Without knowing this i like your reraise on the Flop as its rarely Ax but a hand that he had and there are more straightdraws and flushdraws out there and he might be bluffraising the flop so i like reraising and really barreling through against his draws and madehands he might be folding by the river. And as you said, youd be playing this line with Ax and maybe also Overpairs to 6 und 7. Its ok the way you played that hand but against you'll be better slowing down with your draws but poker is really often about trial and error. :)


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zulusierra
Joined: 17.11.2008

I think it depends on how do you build your ranges.
I don't b/3b bluff this hand on the flop, because there will be too much bluffs in my range if i bluff this and any worse hands.
I would be bluffing with 43s, 53s, maybe 54o on the flop,
and would call flop, x/r turn unimproved with 54s, 85s, some 98 on the turn.
I'm sure this is still not a well balanced line, but maybe good enough.
So i think calling flop, folding turn unimproved would be ok with this hand.


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YohanN7
Joined: 15.06.2009

Actually, all of 43s, 53s, 54o and 54s are outside of my opening range unless my opponent is a nit. You would need to open 80% in order for 54o to be there, which is a lot versus anyone.


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Avataren
Joined: 28.04.2010

Originally posted by YohanN7
Actually, all of 43s, 53s, 54o and 54s are outside of my opening range unless my opponent is a nit. You would need to open 80% in order for 54o to be there, which is a lot versus anyone.

BvB vs such a bad player you should open 100% in SB


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YohanN7
Joined: 15.06.2009

Who's bad? (I'm bad, but we know that already.) A nit or my opponent in this hand? I actually think my opponent made a pretty decent calldown here if he has a read that I'm capable of rebluffing (which most players at 5c/Tc aren't, which is why you would need a read).


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kavboj84
Joined: 16.06.2011

Holy bejesus... he raised this flop with a six and didnt fold to a bet3bet....

Dont bluff the


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YohanN7
Joined: 15.06.2009

Lol !

Well, I don't know if it is THAT bad. He's getting immediate odds of 9:1 on the flop, Easy call.

On the turn, he has to figure (and he'd be quite right) that I have mostly nuts (AA+), most of KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, 88, or a draw. From that point he is getting 7:2 to call down all the way.

Given he called the turn, the river should be a no-brainer for him. Not that badly played I'd say.

There are (counting from the turn) 8*8 + 2*6 + 4 = 78 ace combos he should fear. The pocket pairs = max 36 combos. Throw in a few rare full houses. Value betting range in the n-hood of up to 120 hands.

There are at least 48 straight draw combos possible as bluffs. I could easily accidentally be overbluffing considering that there are flush draws as well.

(First time I've ever defended a fish stealing my pot :tongue: )


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zulusierra
Joined: 17.11.2008

I found that most of the good regs open 75-85% in the SB.
I open 75% as default, but i play 54o instead of T3s for example, because it has better playability, and with T3s type hands your draws will be mostly FD-s, so your bluff range will be FD heavy, while with 54o you will have extra fake outs on two tone boards. I'm not sure if this is fine though.
At lower stakes maybe it's ok to open less, but i think even OOP, with a 75-80% range you can play profitably against a weak player who's holding a similar wide range.

I didn't do the math, but if our weakest draws on this flop will be 98, T8, then i would bluff few of them, and T8, T9 will be good for call flop, bluff x/r turn.
If you exploitatively want to bluff more, T9 is probably still too much on the flop imo.


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kavboj84
Joined: 16.06.2011

Originally posted by YohanN7
Lol !

Well, I don't know if it is THAT bad.

Well consider that he raised a hand wherewith he is behind so most likely this is the very bottom of his value range here, and he didn't fold, what do you expect him to fold then ? Okay say he peels for two pair+ (tho his outs are tainted so he doesnt have the odds for it), but he should have folded on the turn unimproved then at least.

As to the T9, it is a hard question whether you wanna bluff it or not, I wouldnt cause I dont expect to have here too many outs but a bit of reversed implied odds with it. BB might have a flushdraw or an open ender himself so on a 9 or a T especially and on a heart 8,9, you have a tough decision (regarding betfolding and value betting vs checking) I'd rather bluff some weak Kx-s with heart draws and heart draws with a straight draw/backdoor straight draw and the absolute nut low in my range so that when a card comes that smashes my draw range I'd still have some pure bluffs left.


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YohanN7
Joined: 15.06.2009

@kavboj

What would you say about my original question about possibly delaying the rebluff until turn (to make the bluff more "trustworthy")?


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kavboj84
Joined: 16.06.2011

Standard line is bet3bet flop here and this includes Ax-s as well, everything else is an exploitative play so if you decide to delay until the turn with your value/bluff hands you need to find a very good reason for that (for ex your opponent overbarrels the turn and doesnt have the freecard line in his range). But then you also have to take into account that the odds your opponent will get will be different (9:1 vs 7:1) and you have to bluff more , yet you might still not be able to do it when the turn completes your draws. So I'd delay only in special cases, and I would use the standard line most of the time, thats why it is called standard.


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