scoop ME JJ 40BB

I think is a bit meh - people tend to prefer to defend to 3bets by calling more imo and not upping their 4b freq's IP when this deep I find, and hard to say without reads.

I do not really see another way how to play this with 40BB Its HJ vs BB after all

stilll unless he is bluffing a decent amount we just get it in with 36% vs QQ+/AK all time and u can still do a lot with 30bb

It depends on which ME it is. I guess I am much more inclined to fold in cheaper tourneys in general than in the more expensive ones, as people 4bet bluff oh so rarely (unless they are monkeys with a decent enough sample). I dont think 5bet shovin jacks will work often enough without a good sample. And in such a tournament I think I'd think some about preserving tournament life, esp 40bb deep. If you were 30bb deep, I'd puke.

That said, if I had AK vs your stack, I'd 4bet etither bigger (maybe just shove it), just click back or even call IP (not with his stack though)...

Question along the line of the topic: would calling the 4bet 40~50bb deep be the right thing to do with JJ? Essentially putting 25% in going for setmine or T98 is suicidal, but wouldnt sometimes it be better to reevaluate on terrible boards? I guess you /kind/ of have the odds to call with the money in the bank.

Hi,

No point imo turn JJ into bluff and since players might easily get all-in with TT and very often AK or bluff some Ax hands I think 3-bet/all-in seems more standard than 3-bet/folding

best regards,

Originally posted by Kaitz20
Hi,

No point imo turn JJ into bluff and since players might easily get all-in with TT and very often AK or bluff some Ax hands I think 3-bet/all-in seems more standard than 3-bet/folding

best regards,

Agree on this
I can expect villain geting in range to be smth like (99)tt+/aq+
And I asume he has a wider 4 beting range heer so we cant just flat 4 bet pre and hope for low flop and hope he spew it away wirh worse, if we were inp I prefer flat 4 bet or even flat first time if table was sqz happy

So to sum it up if I dont have reads that villain is nit i,m 3beting/ shoving in hero spot with TT+/ak (aqs if I dont just flat aq pre/ aqo is kinda ugly if we 3 bet pre we got to ether fold or shove and I dobt like folding tbh so aq hands I most likely jyst dlat pre)

Hi all,

IP you're never getting it in good here I believe. I don't think anyone 4bet/calls TT or 99 here. I don't think 3betting is bad, especially given today's dynamics regarding 3betting low suited cards in these spots from the BB, and how much people like to flat (though flatting preflop is an option). I don't think folding to the 4bet is an option either given the strength of our hand... so that leaves calling. It sucks, you're going to be faced with tough decisions postflop, but 3bet/calling is really the only way to play this.

Originally posted by chenny8888
Hi all,

IP you're never getting it in good here I believe. I don't think anyone 4bet/calls TT or 99 here. I don't think 3betting is bad, especially given today's dynamics regarding 3betting low suited cards in these spots from the BB, and how much people like to flat (though flatting preflop is an option). I don't think folding to the 4bet is an option either given the strength of our hand... so that leaves calling. It sucks, you're going to be faced with tough decisions postflop, but 3bet/calling is really the only way to play this.

And plan for flop is?????? With ~11k behind in ~ 9k pot

stackoff on boards other than Axx and Kxx i guess. Although Kxx is close

Originally posted by Havlisak
stackoff on boards other than Axx and Kxx i guess. Although Kxx is close

and ch/f A/K hi boards i guess?? common

Hi all,

Yes definitely c/f A high boards, K high we c/c one street and c/f turn.

Originally posted by chenny8888
Hi all,

Yes definitely c/f A high boards, K high we c/c one street and c/f turn.

but the problem with that line is that
a) villain have a imo a lot of Ax combos in his 4 beting/f range + some Kx combos and he is folding to a shove
b) villain will like 90% of time bet like smalish like 3-4k on A/K hi boards and we end up folding best hand big % of time and paying off one more bet big % of time to end up folding on turn without knowing do we fold best hand
c) villain can ch behind low boards sometimes (with AA/KK or and take free card and we again dont know were we r) + I assume plan is to always stack off on low boards

so if we go for 3bet line pre flop i think there is no other way with ef stack sizes then to sigh 5betai

Originally posted by TheRebuz
but the problem with that line is that
a) villain have a imo a lot of Ax combos in his 4 beting/f range + some Kx combos and he is folding to a shove

This is the whole point of taking this line - he has in his 4b range value+bluff range if we just shove we just iso vs value part

Originally posted by TheRebuz
b) villain will like 90% of time bet like smalish like 3-4k on A/K hi boards and we end up folding best hand big % of time and paying off one more bet big % of time to end up folding on turn without knowing do we fold best hand

You are contradicting your 1st point?

Originally posted by TheRebuz
c) villain can ch behind low boards sometimes (with AA/KK or and take free card and we again dont know were we r) + I assume plan is to always stack off on low boards

Yes both are valid but if he ch back AA/KK is cool cos i mean we call one bet anyway so we lose same amount (but get to realise eq)

Personally I think you can 3b for value sure but I think most people 4b range here just does not have enough bluffs and so folding is better (even though it seems rly weak). I also do not want to destroy my stack utility with this flat call one line

Originally posted by letmewinplz8

Originally posted by TheRebuz
but the problem with that line is that
a) villain have a imo a lot of Ax combos in his 4 beting/f range + some Kx combos and he is folding to a shove

This is the whole point of taking this line - he has in his 4b range value+bluff range if we just shove we just iso vs value part

Originally posted by TheRebuz
b) villain will like 90% of time bet like smalish like 3-4k on A/K hi boards and we end up folding best hand big % of time and paying off one more bet big % of time to end up folding on turn without knowing do we fold best hand

You are contradicting your 1st point?

Originally posted by TheRebuz
c) villain can ch behind low boards sometimes (with AA/KK or and take free card and we again dont know were we r) + I assume plan is to always stack off on low boards

Yes both are valid but if he ch back AA/KK is cool cos i mean we call one bet anyway so we lose same amount (but get to realise eq)

Personally I think you can 3b for value sure but I think most people 4b range here just does not have enough bluffs and so folding is better (even though it seems rly weak). I also do not want to destroy my stack utility with this flat call one line

i'm not contradicting anything imo
first there r a lot of guys that for ex take 4bet fold line with AQ which is super great for our hand, also i think that there r a lot of guys who will with that stack take a 4bet call line with TT which is again great for our hand

also i asume that there r reasonable % guys with that stack size who will 4bet for ex Axs and when they get descent borad to get it in they will barel us off our hand etc

the whole point is that when we shove and he folds we increase our stack for like more then 30% and if i 3bet with this stack sizes pre (which i will most of the times like 70% i do that to 5bet shove)

the whole problem with flating is that if we just flat the 4 bet he has stack that allows him to Cbet flop, ch behind turn and put as all in on river or ch F /bet/ bet on any boards and we r basicly bluff catching or herofolding (which as results ends up that we sometimes fold best hand and sometimes call with worse hand) i only flat AA here or maybe some 98s/78s/9Ts if i decide to go 3bet with them in first place

so imo in this spot sigh 5betAI >>>sigh fold>>>>>>>>call

if we had like at least 2:1 SPR on flop if we call pre i go for call

Hi all,

I don't think in the SCOOP ME with these positions you will ever see a 4bet/call with TT, unless the "reg" hasn't played a single hand of poker in 6 years or so.

He definitely has 4bet/folds with AQ. I agree with that. However unless he is bluffing a much, much wider range than AQ, I'm not confident 5bet-shoving here when our equity vs his call range of QQ+ AK is so bad.

I'm personally stacking off on the low boards, though it sucks. I'm not just calling 1 street. But the K high boards, and possibly the Q high boards, we probably don't stack off.

BTW here we're 3bet/calling preflop with some suited Ax (shoving sometimes), with AQ (shoving rarely), and with TT/99. If villain wants to go nuts against us postflop, we can start including KK/AA (probably just AA), and make it really tough. Generally we're not defending the 4bet that lightly, at least passively, so no need to worry about overall weakness here.

Chenny about TT 4bet call I think if villain decide to 4bet them he is very likllely to call of with them imo, and btw hero and villain r unknowns to each other

I agree entirely. But for him to click the 4bet button he has to decide that he will ignore his positional advantage and 4bet here. That's the part I'm debating.

Originally posted by chenny8888
I agree entirely. But for him to click the 4bet button he has to decide that he will ignore his positional advantage and 4bet here. That's the part I'm debating.

i agree on that that 4 beting TT in villans spot with those ef stack sizes inp is bad...

but u know sundays, scoop, main event, unknown, lots of casual/cash game players/sats winers/random btn clickers/big stack unknown