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88 call T on 6TT4 board?

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Hi everyone,

This is a type of hand that occurs very common. I already posted this one on my Dutch blog but I'm not really convinced of the correct play.

I have a pocket pair and pre-flop play is standard. Now we get a flop with an overcard. I call once on the flop because I think I might still be ahead (UTG1 could be donking with a draw). MP2 raises and UTG1 calls. I think I could still be ahead because they could both have a FD or a 6 in their hand.

But on the turn MP2 bets again and UTG1 calls. According to odds and outs this is a clear fold, so I can only call if I'm ahead often enough.
But is this the case? I have some doubts about this.

This is just one hand. But I feel like I'm maybe burning money with this type of hands. I have a pocket pair, don't hit a set on the flop but still call bets on flop and turn, only to be forced to fold on the river.

PokerStars - $0.10/$0.20 - Holdem - 10 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (MP+1): 21.1 BB
MP+2: 9.75 BB
CO: 60.2 BB (VPIP: 21.11, PFR: 13.33, 3Bet Preflop: 8.82, Hands: 362)
BTN: 15.9 BB (VPIP: 35.37, PFR: 12.54, 3Bet Preflop: 1.72, Hands: 312)
SB: 15.4 BB (VPIP: 13.54, PFR: 5.21, 3Bet Preflop: 3.03, Hands: 97)
BB: 21.85 BB (VPIP: 13.70, PFR: 8.22, 3Bet Preflop: 7.89, Hands: 146)
UTG: 26.5 BB (VPIP: 22.25, PFR: 6.92, 3Bet Preflop: 3.82, Hands: 1,328)
UTG+1: 10.75 BB (VPIP: 21.43, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 14)
UTG+2: 17.25 BB (VPIP: 29.20, PFR: 14.16, 3Bet Preflop: 7.35, Hands: 228)
MP: 1.05 BB (VPIP: 27.59, PFR: 1.75, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 60)

SB posts SB 0.25 BB, BB posts BB 0.5 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 0.75 BB) Hero has 8♣ 8♦

fold, UTG+1 calls 0.5 BB, fold, MP calls 0.5 BB, Hero calls 0.5 BB, MP+2 calls 0.5 BB, CO raises to 1 BB, fold, fold, fold, UTG+1 calls 0.5 BB, MP raises to 1.05 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 0.55 BB, MP+2 calls 0.55 BB, CO calls 0.05 BB, UTG+1 calls 0.05 BB

Flop: (6 BB, 5 players) 6♣ T♣ T♦
UTG+1 bets 0.5 BB, Hero calls 0.5 BB, MP+2 raises to 1 BB, fold, UTG+1 calls 0.5 BB, Hero calls 0.5 BB

Turn: (9 BB, 4 players) 4♦
UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, MP+2 bets 1 BB, UTG+1 calls 1 BB, fold

River: (11 BB, 3 players) K♦
UTG+1 bets 1 BB, MP+2 raises to 2 BB, fold

Spoiler

MP+2 shows J♥ T♠ (Three of a Kind, Tens) (Pre 29%, Flop 94%, Turn 100%)
MP shows A♣ J♠ (One Pair, Tens) (Pre 71%, Flop 6%, Turn 0%)
MP+2 wins 12.5 BB


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4 replies
Dawnfall26
Joined: 30.07.2008

Hi!

This I would raise preflop. Your hand is ahead of two limpers and trying to isolate yourself with them is pretty good. If more ppl come along its also no problem with 88.

Flop call seem kindda bad to me because if you think you are ahead often enough(and I think you are) then clearly you should raise to protect again other players. And if you play this on odds and outs you dont really have enough of them and action is far from over so if you think that you arent ahead often enough I think folding is best actually.

After MP raises you should clearly call again.

Turn Im not folding.He may even just have a FD,not to mention some AK type of hands that people play like this on this stake. Also pot is not very huge.

If you were on the river and this happens then you should clearly fold.

So... raise preflop, clearly raise flop! as played, turn call,river Im calling 1BB and folding if such action happens.


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Originally posted by Dawnfall26
This I would raise preflop. Your hand is ahead of two limpers and trying to isolate yourself with them is pretty good. If more ppl come along its also no problem with 88.

Strange, the SHC says I should just limp. It's close though, 99 would be enoug for a raise according to the SHC.

Originally posted by Dawnfall26
Flop call seem kindda bad to me because if you think you are ahead often enough(and I think you are) then clearly you should raise to protect again other players. And if you play this on odds and outs you dont really have enough of them and action is far from over so if you think that you arent ahead often enough I think folding is best actually.

Yes, it's clear (according to odds and outs) that I should fold if I don't think I'm ahead. The difficult question is: am I ahead? 5way I'm not sure about this, they could all easily have a T and CO could even have an overpair.


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Dawnfall26
Joined: 30.07.2008

1. SHC is tight, sure limping 88 is totally fine but I think raising should be better since it gives you more chance of isolating yourself in a 3way pot where 88 will be a favourite.

Preflop its very unlikely anyone has overpair to your 88. so only hands you are afraid are Tx. Since UTG+1 can obviously donk a huge amount of hands(6x,draws,spazz) you are clearly doing well vs him and even though there are 6 more cards in the game Tx hand is still not overly likely and if you manage to actually make them fold when they dont have it you did yourself a great profit since pot is not small. Also you will gain a lot more info with a raise than just call.


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Avataren
Joined: 28.04.2010

lets have a quick talk about preflop strategy. I really hate the ORC on pokerstrategy, horribly outdated and bad overall.


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