77 on 3 bet pot - line check

I assume you're braging,no? What's the question here, seems pretty standard

Hello,

First of all, against an unknown 3betting vs MP I would just fold 77.

Flop call is fine. Raise/fold doesn't make sense as you don't get called by worse and there are a few better hands that would fold.

Turn doesn't really get the board drawy apart from some AhKh or some AhJh (if he even 3bets those) and those are just two combos.
Also, I can't see how he's not going to feel comfortable betting for value with AQ/KK+, so I would say it's an easy fold with just a bluff catcher.

As played, I doubt he has much bluffs on the river as well, and since we do not beat any of his value hands it is an easy fold there as well.

Best,
Plamen

To RakeVictim: Well, for example, should I have raised the turn instead of giving a free card? Mostly people aren't 3 bet bluffing with air. So I easily end up just giving a free card and getting into guessing game if A or K hits the board.

If you think line was ok and standard then it's fine. Thanks for your feedback.

Originally posted by kymupa
Hello,

First of all, against an unknown 3betting vs MP I would just fold 77.

It was a close call but I do have a position and he have a full stack. I didn't wanted to give up so easily but propably fold would have been the best option.

Flop call is fine. Raise/fold doesn't make sense as you don't get called by worse and there are a few better hands that would fold.

I thought raising because I assumed he misses flop often but about allways have two overcards and I don't like giving free cards.

Turn doesn't really get the board drawy apart from some AhKh or some AhJh (if he even 3bets those) and those are just two combos.

I meant it get's drawy of his perspective. Many people calls 3 bets IP with small suited connectors and pairs hoping to flop good. Remember that he doesn't know my range very well either. I could easily have 7h6h, 65s, 54s, 44, 55 whitch have a decent equity against TPTK or overpairs.

He bets only 2,30 on 4,60 leaving 5,05 on river. If any heart, 4, 5 or 7 hits he might be crushed against flushs, straights or two pairs and is still inclined to bet or call with 1:4 pot odds. So imo he would bet bigger in turn with made hands.

At least I would bet AQ or overpair closer to a pot in a board like that just to make possible draws to pay and to make river easy to play. Even with sets I would bet bigger than half the pot but perhaps I'm overanalyzing.

Also, I can't see how he's not going to feel comfortable betting for value with AQ/KK+, so I would say it's an easy fold with just a bluff catcher.

As played, I doubt he has much bluffs on the river as well, and since we do not beat any of his value hands it is an easy fold there as well.

I called river because I didn't believed his turn bet and also I got 1:4 to call. I agree he bets his TP/overpairs anyway.

Best,
Plamen

Thanks for your reply, Plamen

Best wishes

Petri

Thank for sharing OP.

With the limited info given I think we can assume the SB is playing 'standard' - he's probably 3betting polarised and we wouldn't expect to see many 44-99, suited non-premium broadways, KQo and some of the better suited connectors.

With that in mind, he either has a really strong hand or something polarised. I think you're OK to flat IP with 77.

The villain's CB seems fairly standard on such a dry flop and I think you're correct to call at this stage. When the villain double barrels on a blank (and you're not on any obvious draws) it suggests a value bet. The triple barrel on what is effectively a river blank reinforces this idea.

I think you called the turn and river too light vs an opponent whom you had no solid reads on. You must have been surprised to see ATo? This hand fits the PF and Flop ranges but is quickly removed by the turn (especially by OOP villain).

DMurph23, I wasn't actually very surprised to see ATo, my first guess would have been AJ, then AK or some random broadway type hand without Q. Or then value bet from AQ, KQ, AA, KK or QQ *grin*

I agree it's polarised between "nuts" and bluffs. Perhaps I did called it down too lightly.

Thanks for the input.

omg dont do that

pre: 22-77 plays so fkin bad posf even OOP on 3b pots and as u said, u know pretty much nothing about him, so fold. If you think he's 3betting light flat 88+, high suited conn and 4bet bluff the rest. Also flat aces and stuff.

flop: 1/2 psb is close but I think u have to call once
turn: not even close, fold omg

at these stakes ppl dont go too much out of line, you will usually be up against tp+, nothing had changed and he bets again. YEAH he's polarized, but you didnt realize that the range is like 90% super strong and 10% air, so its dumb to think about polarization

play simple, dont burn money

Flop call is fine.

Turn it's an easy fold

huh?

pre: 22-77 plays so fkin bad posf even OOP on 3b pots and as u said, u know pretty much nothing about him, so GII.

FYP

flop: 1/2 psb is close but I think u have to call once
turn: not even close, fold omg

again huh?

To all fishes, if you're going to play that hand differnt from how OP played it, better start looking for a job at McDonalds.

Conclusuion:
- calling the 3b, call flop and then fold blank turn, you are a moran and gonna lose that money;
- calling the 3b, and then fold on this flop, you are still a moran, but at least a breakeven moran.
-folding pre, you are prob 4bb/100 winnar at 5nl/10nl so you have to play 1 zillion hands to move up. Still have hope tho.
-playing that hand like OP- you have a good fundamental knowledge and more important you are not scared money. You now sometimes you're going to lose, but still not scared. You now that this is the correct play. You now sometimes you'll hit villain value range, but in long run that's the correct play.
You'll crush micros pretty fast, because you're not playing to win money, you're playing to make less mistakes than villians and by that way you're going to win the money.

Originally posted by pepevesterinen
DMurph23, I wasn't actually very surprised to see ATo, my first guess would have been AJ, then AK or some random broadway type hand without Q. Or then value bet from AQ, KQ, AA, KK or QQ *grin*

I agree it's polarised between "nuts" and bluffs. Perhaps I did called it down too lightly.

Thanks for the input.

Pepe, may I ask why you were not surprised to see air barrel off 3 streets?

if u r stacking off all day bluff catching 4 barrels plz join my tables
filter you hud to spots like this one, and post how much % of this line would be air
I'd agree with you the line is good if you're playing against an very aggro lunatic player, but other than that it's so fkin bad. I guess you should start by not calling everybody a fish and then look out for the mcdonalds job

if u r stacking off all day bluff catching 4 barrels plz join my tables

you play too low, sorry mate

filter you hud to spots like this one, and post how much % of this line would be air

too lazy do it, just because you're asking me to do it, but it's more than enough.

I'd agree with you the line is good if you're playing against an very aggro lunatic player, but other than that it's so fkin bad. I guess you should start by not calling everybody a fish and then look out for the mcdonalds job

because of this "bad" plays now I can buy a McDonalds franchise and open a restaurant with the profits of only one month grinding even less

sure u do

Originally posted by DMurph23
Pepe, may I ask why you were not surprised to see air barrel off 3 streets?

Imo he partially revealed his hand on turn, DMurph23. From his perspective my range includes small pairs and small suited connectors, people call these IP all day long and he doesn't know how loose my 3 bet calling range is. Purely statistically it's likely that I'm more on the loose side than tight.

So when I call his small flop cbet my hand range includes from his perspective at least Qx, small and midsize PP's and suited connectors which hit 63. So my range looks something like AQ, KQ, 22-JJ, 76s, 65s, 54s.

When turn brings 2:h it gives gsd's and fd's to 76s, 65s, 44, 55 and possibly even some suited aces or QJs, KJs etc if I'm that loose. Still he bets only half the pot. I need just 25% equity to continue and there's still half the money left for extra implied odds. So why bet so small with strong but vulnerable hand like AQ, KK+? Would you bet only half the pot with one pair type hands when board contains Q:s 6:d 3:h 2:h and villain might be on the loose side?

People tend to bet more when fd and some extra gsd's becomes possible but he bets only smallish bet. Imo it makes less probable that he has a made hand(unless he have an unbreakable monster, whitch is not possible on this board). What do you think?

It was the small turn bet which made me to think he rarely have a hand. I called river because of the small turn bet, not because I normally call 3 streets with a bluffcatcher. So what do you guys think about his bet sizing on turn? Is it suspicious or am I overanalyzing?

aleeebr, I filtered my call 3 bet, call 3 barrels hands but there were only few of them and mostly against maniacs. I guess you are right that it's quite spewy under normal conditions.

the key is that most players dont barrel 1/2 psb on blank card ott after betting same amount otf, cus they think u'll call it again, so mostly they bet really big or x/f the bluffs and vbet strong hands with this size.
remember, micro stakes ppl dont get crazy often enough