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AA 4bet pot

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kasmv
Joined: 06.12.2008

I know the math behind an ultra low SPR play, but I still struggle in these types of situations. Can I fold if a villain shoves otf? Should I shove on x every time?
Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 Pot Limit Omaha Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $43.63 (174.5 bb)
BB: $15.72 (62.9 bb)
UTG: $24.09 (96.4 bb)
MP: $25 (100 bb)
CO: $24.65 (98.6 bb)
Hero (BTN): $49.21 (196.8 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with Q A 5 A
UTG folds, MP raises to $0.85, CO raises to $2.90, Hero raises to $9.90, 3 folds, CO calls $7

Flop: ($21) 8 T 5 (2 players)
CO checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($21) 4 (2 players)
CO checks, Hero bets $16.08, CO calls $14.75 and is all-in

River: ($50.50) 7 (2 players, 1 is all-in)

Results:

Spoiler

$50.50 pot ($2.00 rake)
Final Board: 8 T 5 4 7
CO showed J A Q 3 and won $48.50 ($23.85 net)
Hero mucked Q A 5 A and won $0.00 (-$24.65 net)

-thanks, Max.


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4 replies
Coach
Kyyberi
Joined: 09.07.2010

Yes, you shove any flop when SPR <1 against one player after your 4bet. When you 4bet you make the decision to shove any flop.

Why?

- Villain can't exploit the fact that you have aces, that line is bullet proof +EV.
- If you start to check-fold these flops, you will make more bad folds than good folds in the long run

Of course sometimes the opponent hits the flop hard. You play against his range, and therefore you will hit the top of his range sometimes. When you say that you know the math behind this, but struggle on any flop with SPR<1, you actually don't know the full math behind it. As the math says that 4bet pre AND shove any flop is 100% sure +EV line. But if you change it to 4bet pre and fold some flops, it might actually turn to -EV line, depending how scary you are on the flops. And when you create the habit of folding to scary boards instead of shove, it will become easier and easier to make more "hero folds".


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Skodljivec
Joined: 17.12.2011

Hi,

while theoretically you should shove any flop after you get the spr 1 HU, there are some instances when you can fold. You have to have some reads on your opponents though. For example if your read is that your opponent 3bets on high rundowns, and the flop comes JT9rb while you hold AA23rb yourself, you can c/f. But in a vacuum, you have to shi like kybery said. On the above board you can probably b/f small as well, but that's higher level stuff. At plo50 and below you should probably just ship every flop.

Regards,

Skod


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kasmv
Joined: 06.12.2008

Thanks for the answers, guys! Though I forgot to ask something that I was thinking about :) So the main point of this hand was basically about 2 polar situations: the given one and the one when we hit the nf (I wanted to discuss only monotone flop situations). I checked otf not because I was thinking about folding, but because of the situations when I have the nuts. I think that monotone boards aren't really profitable no matter what you have. So I came up with the idea to x back all the times otf ip, first of all is it a good idea? And the second, if I x back is it still profitable to jam all the turns?

- thanks, Max.


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Skodljivec
Joined: 17.12.2011

Hi,

first of all at plo20 there is absolutely no need to balance, so don't worry about it. The fact how the board looks is also very important; for example if the board is KQJmt it's very very different than if the board is 236mt. So in general when let's say the spr is slightly bigger 1 you could introduce a very small b/f range with all of your hands. But when the spr is low like here you should just ship flop. Villain will sometimes fold 2 pair, but often call. And if you give a free card here, he might hit those 2 pair ott, and not fold then and leave you in a bad shape, when for example he would fold them otf.

Let's say villain has KQJT without the flush on this flop. If you go AI most players will fold that hand. But every turn 9 or higher will give him a monster vs all of your nonflush hands, and there's no way he is folding ott then. Hope this clears it up a bit.

Regards,

Skod


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