AKo vs fish raise

Hi Gingerkid,

Preflop: looks fine

Postflop: turn is a call once you underbet the way you did. Flop is marginal because you are OOP vs a fish and you just have two overcards (mind you the best ones at that). So what do we do on most turns? Start calling down hoping he bluffs?

So in general you wouldnt bluff too much vs fish on flop? My assumption was that fish overfolds flop but sticks to the hand on turn and river? flop was relatively dry, so I cbet. off course it could be cc

P.S.

I just filtered my pt4 database for VPIP > 30, and looked for average fold vs flop cbet in 2bet pot is 52%, and in 3bet pot is 43%. On turn it is 25%. So I guess my assumption is likely correct.

No, fish call on flop and turn and (if they bust out) fold on the river. At least the ones called Calling Stations. They may be fish, but they don't necessarily hate money. They come into the river with such a weak range that they have to fold a lot when the big bets come. C-betting flop (only) may be okay because they need a little something to proceed (like a small pair), c-betting-bluff flop and turn, but not river, is burning money. It is their mode of operation to float flop and turn and. possibly, take it away from you if you check river.

In other words, 3-barrelling fish is profitable in theory, more so than bluffing one stab vs regs (because you win the flop and turn bets as well). Hard to translate to practice though.

Originally posted by YohanN7
No, fish call on flop and turn and (if they bust out) fold on the river. At least the ones called Calling Stations. They may be fish, but they don't necessarily hate money. They come into the river with such a weak range that they have to fold a lot when the big bets come. C-betting flop (only) may be okay because they need a little something to proceed (like a small pair), c-betting-bluff flop and turn, but not river, is burning money. It is their mode of operation to float flop and turn and. possibly, take it away from you if you check river.

In other words, 3-barrelling fish is profitable in theory, more so than bluffing one stab vs regs (because you win the flop and turn bets as well). Hard to translate to practice though.

Ok thats interesting assumption, i was not thinking about 3 barrels vs fish. I will filter my database for that. What does Bogdan think about this?

Hi GingerKid

trying to learn here... why bet so low on turn? Was you sure this way villain would try a bluff against you?

Regards

Originally posted by phullhand
Hi GingerKid

trying to learn here... why bet so low on turn? Was you sure this way villain would try a bluff against you?

Regards

because I thought I dont have value with betting turn and river big, and also it is ok for me to induce in 3bet pot.

Originally posted by GingerKid

Originally posted by YohanN7
No, fish call on flop and turn and (if they bust out) fold on the river. At least the ones called Calling Stations. They may be fish, but they don't necessarily hate money. They come into the river with such a weak range that they have to fold a lot when the big bets come. C-betting flop (only) may be okay because they need a little something to proceed (like a small pair), c-betting-bluff flop and turn, but not river, is burning money. It is their mode of operation to float flop and turn and. possibly, take it away from you if you check river.

In other words, 3-barrelling fish is profitable in theory, more so than bluffing one stab vs regs (because you win the flop and turn bets as well). Hard to translate to practice though.

Ok thats interesting assumption, i was not thinking about 3 barrels vs fish. I will filter my database for that. What does Bogdan think about this?

It would be interesting to see some real-life numbers. I think my reasoning holds in theory, but 3-barreling is an advanced play and takes nerves of steel and perfect judgement. (It's always good for variance, and variance we all like=))

That's an interesting stat for sure (the fold to cbet of 50%).

Seems a bit high to me for a fish but it may also be because a lot of regs love to bomb vs fish.

Originally posted by BogdanPS
That's an interesting stat for sure (the fold to cbet of 50%).

Seems a bit high to me for a fish but it may also be because a lot of regs love to bomb vs fish.

I think it is because their preflop range is so wide, that they have very high % of air hands, and most of fish continue only if they have a draw or a pair+. Off course some fish call any hand, but still I think there is most FE on flop and least on turn. Thats why I iso raise especially IP very loose (around 30%, not sure if that is loose?), because I can take the flop very often plus improve, and if hit have big implieds.

could be also so high because regs bomb vs them, but still imo even if the bet pot size, still 50% is very high.