Is this thread open for discussion Marta or do we have to use google translate to find info about it in the German community?
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interesting .. thread open again .. damage has been done .. cant be repaired imo ..
Max,
The thread is up for discussion as long as you take a pro Pokerstrategy stance.
As you can see, holding an anti-Pokerstrategy view will lead to having your post removed.
I do insist that you and everyone else read the German thread though.
Best,
Gary
Hi guys,
First of all, apologies for being quick with editing your posts in this thread last night. We understand you are frustrated, and we did not mean to give you a feeling of being censored. We are open to feedback – even if it’s harsh. Plus, hats off to whoever created the video – although the topic is sensitive.
Secondly, we know that for you – Black Members – the possibility of getting the suit was one of the key things related to the BM status. We are aware that the events with the tailor service filled up quickly giving you no chance of receiving the suit. We would like to fix that by offering you an alternative.
Please contact us on bmp@pokerstrategy.com and we will discuss a way how you can get your suit.
We would also like to apologize for any miscommunication that might have happened in our communities – we have a great deal of respect for you and we recognize the impact you had on the company’s well-being over the past years.
Thank you.
The graphic to me proves that most poker sites still don't get the problem, which I thought that Pokerstrategy did with its original strategy.
Long term high volume players are still the sites most important clients, as they alone are the ones who actually give the money to the poker site as shown in the graphic.
As has been acknowledged even if you give all the training in the world there will always be a top 5% of players who are the actual winners over the long term.
You need fresh depositors yes, but most sites and poker industry as a whole seems to be happy with the situation in the graphic.
Lets go after the fish and get their $250, we will introduce spin and gos and other stupid formats to promise a high reward for little effort and make them blow their $250 dollars as quick as possible to be gobbled up and spat out as rake by the winning regs.
Now what if the fish was turned into a break even or slightly losing reg instead. Instead of blowing $250 in a week, and never coming back they trickle through $50 a month for the next 10 years or more?
If everyone that joined became a break even player and never left, happy days surely.
Make the site more friendly and attract depositors, but surely understand that rake paid is the actual value of the customer not the winrate or deposit frequency. Both player types are needed for the ecosystem to survive.
Amongst the myriad of removed posts lay a lot of very pertinent questions that you have chosen to ignore by censorship.
Is there any hope of those questions being answered or are you just hoping to sweep those under the rug?
Really genius video kniddel 
Mind if i share on the dutch forum part?
It's unbelievable that black members are being fucked for this- I've never got to black yet, but i was at a level where i was going to give it an full-time try this summer (quit job, grind 24/7)- now there's n rake/reward/motivation for me to grow onwards.
As Russo said- there's some strategy to find on this site, but most is outdated/repeating stuff- this also counts for the goldsection. I'm willing to bet that there's (at most) 2 or 3 gold vid's a month- live coaching has been in a downwards spiral to
and still we have to play as an affiliate from ps.com for the rest of our lives.
I'm just gonna pray a new traffic heavy pokersite comes up in a few years
I have just found the following graphic in the german thread in respect to how the rewards systems on poker rooms are structured:
Marta, or someone at ps.com can you please clarify what this graphic means?
I don't think it is anything to do with pokerstars.
Probably some messed up way networks like iPoker view the value of customers.
I assume they are using this to demonstrate the actual value of a customer.
Problem is if that is the case they are looking at it all wrong.
Just wanted someone from ps.com to clarify what this means as it was a ps.com admin in the german community who posted it.
A german blackmember made a post (that is gone by now) in which he claimed, that IPoker does not pay their affiliates like this at all.
Iirc it's something along those lines:
Player value = 0.5*rake generated + 0.5*RCI + tournament fees
RCI would be some formula that distributes the generated rake as value among the players that cashed in.
I assume that stars and ipoker are responsible for the vast majority of rake created for ps.com, so the graphic really would be bs if the information is correct.
Hey gormless,
regarding the calculations that you posted, there is no need to focus on this at the moment. It was posted to support the message in the opening post (explaining the changes in the poker eco-system) but in the end, it's difficult to put this in numbers that would be true for everyone - different players, different player valuation.
You had a good point saying that:
Originally posted by gormless
Make the site more friendly and attract depositors, but surely understand that rake paid is the actual value of the customer not the winrate or deposit frequency. Both player types are needed for the ecosystem to survive.
Both the VIPs and the recreational players are crucial for the poker industry to keep going. However, on the operator's side as well as our side, the changes in investments are needed. We were more than happy to offer additional benefits for our VIPs as long as it was doable for us. We still value the VIP players and we will aim to continue with the rewards that are in line with our reviewed investments. This is a point that we ask for your understanding - even though you might hate the decision (and that's ok, we put ourselves in your shoes - and this sucks).
Black Members have always had a special place at PokerStrategy. Lots of you have been a part of the community because that's where your journey has begun. In the end, whatever you decide to do next, we will respect. In case your understanding of our approach was different, hope it's more clear now.
Originally posted by UPAY4DINNER
Amongst the myriad of removed posts lay a lot of very pertinent questions that you have chosen to ignore by censorship.Is there any hope of those questions being answered or are you just hoping to sweep those under the rug?
ICYMI
Just to reach Black Member by playing at PokerStars (not accounting for rake generated after that), a player has to generate roughly $182K rake. Even if you only get 10% of that (which is impossible according to the PokerStars affiliates program, you are probably getting 35%) doesn't he even deserve a god damned suit for the $18K-$63K he made you?
Marta, don't get me wrong, this question are not for you, it's rhetotical, so don't feel obliged to answer it. We all know you had nothing to do with this outrage. I just hope they are watching this.
I wanted to become a black member at this site, now I just don't give a shit about it. For what, a shiny forum badge?
Hi Marta,
Obviously you know that I am nowhere near black member, I am just a recreational (but regular) slightly losing player of the game.
So this move doesn't affect me, and is unlikely to. I'm unlikely to ever reach black member status.
I fully understand that pokerstrategy probably has to restructure, and that the poker industry has hit a major downswing at the moment.
I just think that if that table was actually how the poker industry views the value of players, then the logic is flawed for long term sustainability.
Losing your top 20% of customers at the expense of attracting more of short term 80% customers is not a recipe for success in any business, just saying
Highvolume player for my personally are the cancer of poker. Just look at what a nitfest pokerstars has become even on microstakes there are people 24 tabling 2nl or reaching supernova on 10nl. This is not the way poker should be played. Rakebackgrinding should just stop to exist as a whole. Lowering rakeback and supernova benefits on stars would be good for stars and poker in the longterm. As a recreational player there is 0,0 fun to play cashgames on pokerstars at the moment with the insane amount of bumhunters that swarm a table if a fish sits down. I even see waitlists of 15 people on 10nl tables its really sad.
If the rakebackgrinders could not play poker profitable after rakeback the games will become alot more fun for recreational players.
Ofcourse this rant has nothing to do with the blackmember changes on pokerstrategy. I think that status should have some sort of benefit even if it only is a tailored suit or something. But just removing the entire thing and giving nothing in return for reaching black member status is pretty greedy. giving players an option to unlink the affliate should be implemented if they can get a better deal somewhere else they should be able to leave here.
Hello [txt edited out]
So what you are saying is; pokerstars should lower the rakeback, making the games much tougher so that the only way to make a living out of it, is by having a -ev month every 3rd month, due to the fact that it wont be possible to actually GRIND poker. Because then even more goes to pokerstars and the affiliates, and then kill the motivation for actually play a lot?
Essentially what you are saying is: MORE SPINGO's PLEASE, AND MAKE THE JACKPOT FOR 1$ BI 200.000.000$.
Or: Lets make it impossible for anyone to climb the limits. Lets make the rake 99%, and then the 10 richest in the world can control everything (More than they do right now)
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I have learned myself to be +ev grinding 8 tables of zoom with a h/hour of 2400. When i started i was a fish making accounts on all pokersites. So i have no option to get into any affiliate to get just 0.1% MORE back of rakeback.
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On topic: Keep talking about poker is in a decline, then it will eventually be.
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//hey martinemem, you might feel offended but please keep your posts clean - Marta