KQs FD + 2OCS + BDST8 [gameplan discussion]

I would just call the flop.

Originally posted by nitrol
I would just call the flop.

Yeah, I think this is an option too, but I don't dislike the raise either. If he hits one of his outs, he may get some more money down the line.

On the turn I'd check and see a free river. Then - evaluate.

I also would call flop here and as played x back turn

thxs guys!!!

why call flop and dont raise?

i agree of checking back as played

We have so much equity here (but not a stackoffable amount!) when we raise and he 3bets our life totally sucks because we are clearly not going to stack off. So we should call instead of raise imo. If we want a raising range on the flop then we should pick a hand that has potential i.e. BDFD+BDSD, AND we also have a super easy decision when we get 3bet i.e. we snapfold it. That's the convention anyway, and of course raising isn't terrible with the FD, it just has implications for our range... E.g. If we raise our FDs here then do we float our BDFD+BDSD hands? That doesn't make much sense since BDDs are weaker, so do we raise both? If so then we are raising way too frequently. Also, if we raise our FDs here then whenever we call and the turn hits the flush villain knows that we rarely have the flush. Of course it's not a huge deal since ppl probably aren't paying attention, but it's also useful to have the gameplan for what to do with different parts of your range.

I am 3-betting this preflop. Don't want the blinds to join the party and we are ahead of (not much behind at least) the CO's range.

But if I just call preflop, I don't mind just calling postflop with K♠:Q♠:. I'd raise flop with things like 7♠:6♠: and keep firing. With these hands you need the fold equity more than with a 15-outer which we likely have here (if we are behind at all). All A high and some smaller pp will fold sooner or later. The later, the better.

Calling preflop, raising flop, checking behind river is likely to be the worst option.

Raising all conceivable draws is too much.

Not sure I agree with 3betting BU vs CO. I think it's a pretty normal flat and we don't mind the blinds coming along since we have a nice hand IP. If we 3bet here then I guess it's an adjustment with information that CO is a station against 3bets. If we get 4bet it's quite tragic to 3bet/fold a hand like this and calling the 4bet is likely going to get us into trouble. People are kinda aggro CO vs BU so there's that. As an adjustment 3bettnig is fine and it fits perfectly into a top x% range if we think villain is a station, but 64% is actually a pretty ok defence % from villain so I'm pretty sure we should flat it.

Sure, it is a "standard call". Standard doesn't necessarily equal optimal. But then I'm a total 3-betting monkey:D

I did try to avoid the use of the word standard because of this, and I definitely agree but in this case I think it is standard for a reason Realistically I doubt anybody could really prove that the EV for flatting > EV for 3betting or vice versa so it's meh. We know that 3betting is likely to be profitable given that we have "64% FE", so that's always nice but we have such great potential being IP and playing postflop it's hard to see how that would be comparably lower EV than 3betting.

I agree totally. Nobody knows. As for me personally, I'm 3-betting stuff like 76s (BU vs CO), and that needs to be balanced somehow with "real hands". The theory is that people absolutely hate playing OOP in 3-bet pots and give up too fast. I do this up to NL10 (preferably Zoom). Don't know how well it works at NL25, probably not as well because people there are much more awake -> I'd be 4-bet much more.