Bet, x/call or x/r river?

Bet/call.

Note that vs this opponent (takes two cold with 42s) you can bet any river (and probably fold unimproved to a raise).

c/r river dont donk/call river after youve been raised on turn-

Originally posted by Avataren
c/r river dont donk/call river after youve been raised on turn-

That is the STANDARD line, not necessarily the BEST line independent of board, opponent and betting pattern. Chances are that this dude (then unknown) hit a king on the turn and hates the appearance of one more Q on the river and won't bet. Now we know better, he is insanely loose/aggressive, so the next time, check-raise.

I would argue that donking is only good like 3 - 5% of the time. I don't see this hand being one of them.

Fair enough. Donking is rarely correct as you say.

Just to explain what must be weighed into the decision.

On the flip side for donk-calling:

• If you are behind, a check-raise may cost you an extra bet (total cost = 3BB instead of 2)
• If you are ahead, some hands in the opponents range costs you a bet because he will check behind if you check but call if you bet

On the flop side for donk-calling:

• You remove most of the opponents ability to bluff
• There are hands that the opponent will bet-call if you check, but just call if you bet

Practical examples of the above this hand:

• Flushes and straights. On this board there are plenty of them, especially with this opponent
• Any T and perhaps the worse K

On the flop side for donk-calling:

• A J (straight draw) with which he bluff raised turn
• Possibly some K

The full calculation you must do yourself (takes lots of work), probably best done with a tool like Equilab.

Hi,

I would be tempted to check/call that hand on the turn (maybe not always). If you bet QJ, it's pretty much the bottom of your value range (you are over 70% of c-betting turn if you bet all QJ combos). I might be wrong on the right frequency (I try to have about 65%) of c-betting on the turn.

I don't think you lose value by checking, vilain seems to peel way to light on the flop with a really wide range, so he could easily bet a hand that he would have fold to a bet or value bet twice a worse hand.

As played I don't mind the donk on the river, I can't tell why, but it feels ok to me. Check/raise might be a bit overplayed, especially after a bet/call on the turn.

It is easy to tell why. Versus this villain, there are 81 combos that beat us, all of them very much in his range. Versus a normal villain, there are perhaps 40-50 combos (fewer flushes, straights and full houses) that beat us. These combos are guaranteed to cost us 3BB instead of 2BB. When I put in a reasonable range for this villain, it turns out that we don't even have the equity to bet-call. This is a clear check-call versus him, especially since he will bluff every busted draw!

Whether this is enough to check-raise vs a normal villain, I find very doubtful. My first instinct (as reported in my first reply) tells me no. I don't have the energy to find it out, but it is a trivial exercise in Equilab to do it. I might do it a rainy day.

As for checking turn, this is the bottom of my value range (we do have up to 10 outs vs better hands) or top of checking range. Don't know what is best. No better hand is folding, but worse hands are calling. How many better/worse hands are raising? Too much job to find out.

I did a really quick combo analysis, if you check all QJ, you check too much, if you bet all of them you bet too much. It's closer than what I was thinking.

Lol. That means the correct answer actually is "Don't know". We were both spot on