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Turn raise Top 2P unsure how to proceed

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Chowchow12
Joined: 04.06.2012

Hey everyone,

I am a little curious on how to proceed with the turn raise here? Is it a call or jam?

I think the right choice here is to call turn call river, but I am not sure and wouldn't mind your opinions?
The board is pretty dry, so I am not worried about draws or anything. But at the same time..what is he raising with here? worse 2p makes a lot of sense. A4, A5, 23 (still seems loose for an UTG limp) really don't know.

Pacific, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $1.03 (51.5 bb)
BB: $4.25 (212.5 bb)
UTG: $2 (100 bb)
MP: $2.54 (127 bb)
CO: $1.76 (88 bb)
Hero (BTN): $2.82 (141 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with A Q
UTG calls $0.02, MP calls $0.02, CO folds, Hero raises to $0.08, 2 folds, UTG calls $0.06, MP folds

Flop: ($0.21) 5 Q 4 (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $0.15, UTG calls $0.15

Turn: ($0.51) A (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets $0.38, UTG raises to $0.96, Hero ??


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10 replies
Super Moderator
VorpalF2F
Joined: 02.09.2010

On that board, what hand would someone sensible in UTG limp/call pre, flat a flop, then raise turn when an A hits?
Candidates seem to be in AT+ category -- perhaps suited in clubs.

UTG can sometimes raise cards that give him a flush draw, and can possibly limp 44 or 55.
Slowplayed QQ+ is possible, but not probable.

23 gives him a made straight, but it is not in a sensible UTG limp/call range

I'm not a fan of giving people free cards, and if you're betting, you're jamming.

I'm curious to hear what others have to say.

Cool hand!
VS


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excitedpoker
Joined: 12.08.2010

The classical microdonk nuttish line, dump it instantly, bad players limp call PPs, considering you block so much he really is doing that for value. btw the isolation should be to $0.12


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VaskataBuci
Joined: 08.08.2011

http://www.pokerstrategy.com
Board: 5dQs4cAc
Equity Win Tie
MP2 37.50% 37.50% 0.00% { AA, QQ, 55-44, AKs, A5s-A4s, 76s, AKo }
BU 62.50% 62.50% 0.00% { AdQh }

This is I think a very tight range and I'm sure he has many more weaker Ax. So for me stack off is OK.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Why stack off when we can call and let him bet river too?


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VaskataBuci
Joined: 08.08.2011

Oooo absolutely, we could do this also. But I don't think he is folding something from the above to a shove.

Edit: Just saw the hand in chow's blog:f_biggrin::f_biggrin::f_biggrin:


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Jeero
Joined: 23.04.2009

I like jamming here much better than calling. I think your hand is way too strong to fold given no reads since you only lose to a set. Also, AA and QQ are very very unlikely because he would have to be very tricky preflop and on the flop. However, I think A5 and A4 are not super unlikely especially if they are suited. Although I myself am pretty new to no limit, it really seems like fish love to play rag aces for a limp, especially suited ones. I would also say that AT, AJ, maybe AK and 54 are also possible since maybe villain puts you on just a Q. Villain might also have 67 of clubs. The thing is, you have 9% equity vs 55, and you are getting a little over 3:1 on the jam if he calls (which he obviously will with a set). So you are profitable if he has a set less than 1/3rd of the time. You have over 95% equity vs A4 so I assumed if he doesn't have a set, you have almost all of the equity. (I hope my math is right :P) So a set does seem kind of likely because I really don't think he's bluffing with air or an under pair very often here and you don't have a read that he's a maniac. I don't know if 1/3rd is unlikely enough but sets are really really hard to get. One other consideration for me, is that if you do jam and get called you get to see his hand. Once you see the hand and he has a set, you can note that he doesn't just check raise the flop with flopped sets on non-ace high boards. Also, if he has a weaker ace or two pair, you can note that he limps with those crappy hands. I prefer jamming over calling to induce more action on the river because I just don't see weak players on NL2 folding any two pair to a jam or even just a random ace. However, it might go check-bet-fold on the river if the river card is scary. Yes, he might bluff his crazy maniac bluffs on the river, but that's pretty maniacal, and if he's that much of a maniac I wouldn't feel bad about him folding to my turn shove because there will soon be another hand where you can value-town him again. Just my two cents. Again, I'm new myself.


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Super Moderator
VorpalF2F
Joined: 02.09.2010

Hi, Jeero,
I think your ranges are probably about right.

Do you have Equilab? If not, get it, it is free. There is a new version called Power Equilab that isn't but the free version does most of what we need.
Here is Equilab's output given the current scenario:

Board: 5♦Q♠4♣ A♣
       Equity     Win     Tie
MP2    14.18%   9.76%   4.42% { QQ+, AJs+, A5s-A2s, 54s, 7c6c, AJo+, 54o }
BU     85.82%  81.40%   4.42% { AQo }

All the best,
VS;


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YohanN7
Joined: 15.06.2009

Originally posted by excitedpoker
The classical microdonk nuttish line, dump it instantly, bad players limp call PPs, considering you block so much he really is doing that for value. btw the isolation should be to $0.12

Folding top two getting 3.5:1 100 bb deep is criminal.


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excitedpoker
Joined: 12.08.2010

Odds don`t matter if it`s not a bluff, he just isn`t check/raising turn with worse


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YohanN7
Joined: 15.06.2009

You'd need a hole card camera. These "they never bluff here" statements that are to be found, when added up, imply that nobody is ever bluffing or mistakenly value betting worse.

Even if you draw to a split at best you have the odds to call.

If he is bluffing even close to the amount he should be bluffing, folding is a big mistake. Throw in A4s/A5s and you make a terrible laydown.


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