PLO Cash Game Grind, Get Rich or Die Tryin'

Originally posted by adragonro

When Stations get there and you're getting 3:1 on your money on the river but you know your dead

Your EV-line dosn't look so well. It could either be a downer or you are playing to loose against fishes who say they have it.

In all honesty, there is $15 of tilt in that downswing where I was just ramping AAxx in pre-flop 250bb deep which is just so open to variance and not the way to play optimally. The rest is just run bad, building the pot when I have the nuts but having to x/f or b/f rivers where fish got there with their flushes. Very frustrating.

Poker Progress
Just how the game is going at the minute, do you think this is spewy on the river? Can I get J8 to fold or does J8 always get it in. 92% on the turn, to 0% on the river.

Crushing K♦:4♦:K♥:4♠: preflop, flipping on the flop (disregarding short stack all in) and just not winning them flips/ flopping rubbish.

4-bet calling with garbage, flopping two pair and getting lucky.

Tilt/Spew

Bankroll Update: $182.31

General Ramblings
Waiting for the hand histories from my mobile play to be sent over, I will get the one outer/cooler up on here soon.

Poker Progress
On the flip side of all this I have just hit Silver Star for the first time this month. Glad to be getting more rakeback and it is a good achievement for me in the cash game grind.

Poker Progress

Session Results:
- Hands Played: 413
- Profit: $0.19

Finished the session off with this hand, would have been a far brighter picture if this wasn't house over quads.

PokerStars - $0.02 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 202.5 BB (VPIP: 55.17, PFR: 18.97, 3Bet Preflop: 10.00, Hands: 58)
SB: 596.5 BB (VPIP: 96.30, PFR: 36.11, 3Bet Preflop: 5.00, Hands: 110)
BB: 100 BB (VPIP: 27.78, PFR: 22.22, 3Bet Preflop: 3.70, Hands: 72)
Hero (UTG): 103 BB
CO: 132.5 BB (VPIP: 83.33, PFR: 8.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 36)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 7♠ A♥ A♠ J♥

Hero raises to 3.5 BB, CO calls 3.5 BB, BTN calls 3.5 BB, SB calls 3 BB, BB calls 2.5 BB

Flop: (17.5 BB, 5 players) T♦ A♣ 5♠
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets 14 BB, fold, BTN calls 14 BB, SB calls 14 BB, fold

Turn: (59.5 BB, 3 players) 3♣
SB checks, Hero bets 34 BB, BTN calls 34 BB, fold

River: (127.5 BB, 2 players) 5♣
Hero bets 51.5 BB and is all-in, BTN calls 51.5 BB

Do you guys think a check shove is best on the turn, I imagine sets are betting turn when I check it OOP. It would help my range to check shove I imagine considering villain doesn't expect me to have a straight very often. If I can do this with straights and trips it could increase fold equity against regs.

Originally posted by WhiteWalker

Spoiler

PokerStars - $0.02 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: 65 BB (VPIP: 57.14, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)
MP: 147 BB (VPIP: 38.46, PFR: 26.92, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 27)
CO: 151 BB (VPIP: 65.91, PFR: 20.45, 3Bet Preflop: 5.00, Hands: 44)
BTN: 183 BB (VPIP: 67.50, PFR: 37.50, 3Bet Preflop: 15.38, Hands: 41)
SB: 104.5 BB (VPIP: 18.18, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 11)
Hero (BB): 100 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has J♣ 8♠ 7♥ 6♠

fold, MP raises to 3 BB, CO calls 3 BB, BTN calls 3 BB, fold, Hero calls 2 BB

Flop: (12.5 BB, 4 players) T♠ 7♣ 9♥
Hero bets 12 BB, fold, fold, BTN calls 12 BB

Turn: (36.5 BB, 2 players) 2♣
Hero bets 26 BB, BTN calls 26 BB

River: (88.5 BB, 2 players) T♣
Hero bets 59 BB and is all-in, BTN calls 59 BB

Spoiler

Hero shows J♣ 8♠ 7♥ 6♠ (Straight, Jack High)
(Pre 39%, Flop 80%, Turn 93%)
BTN shows T♦ K♠ 4♦ 7♠ (Full House, Tens full of Sevens)
(Pre 61%, Flop 20%, Turn 8%)
BTN wins 199.5 BB

I understand your thought proces, but first think of how V would play his hands. A nutstraight he normaly plays faster. So what is left on a dry flop ist mostly OE/GS/overpairs/2pairs/maybe Sets.
So on the Turn that brings a FD most straightdraws should fold. so the River is a ugly as it can get.
So I would bet the Turn bigger, since your hand is obvious allready and check the River allways. Folding most of the time, and calling, when is very aggro on the river.

Originally posted by WhiteWalker

Finish the session off with this hand, would have been a far brighter picture if this wasn't house over quads.

Spoiler

PokerStars - $0.02 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 202.5 BB (VPIP: 55.17, PFR: 18.97, 3Bet Preflop: 10.00, Hands: 58)
SB: 596.5 BB (VPIP: 96.30, PFR: 36.11, 3Bet Preflop: 5.00, Hands: 110)
BB: 100 BB (VPIP: 27.78, PFR: 22.22, 3Bet Preflop: 3.70, Hands: 72)
Hero (UTG): 103 BB
CO: 132.5 BB (VPIP: 83.33, PFR: 8.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 36)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has 7♠ A♥ A♠ J♥

Hero raises to 3.5 BB, CO calls 3.5 BB, BTN calls 3.5 BB, SB calls 3 BB, BB calls 2.5 BB

Flop: (17.5 BB, 5 players) T♦ A♣ 5♠
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets 14 BB, fold, BTN calls 14 BB, SB calls 14 BB, fold

Turn: (59.5 BB, 3 players) 3♣
SB checks, Hero bets 34 BB, BTN calls 34 BB, fold

River: (127.5 BB, 2 players) 5♣
Hero bets 51.5 BB and is all-in, BTN calls 51.5 BB

Spoiler

Hero shows 7♠ A♥ A♠ J♥ (Full House, Aces full of Fives)
(Pre 69%, Flop 92%, Turn 98%)
BTN shows 3♥ 5♦ 6♣ 5♥ (Four of a Kind, Fives)
(Pre 31%, Flop 8%, Turn 3%)
BTN wins 223 BB

Do you guys think a check shove is best on the turn, I imagine sets are betting turn when I check it OOP. It would help my range to check shove I imagine considering villain doesn't expect me to have a straight very often. If I can do this with straights and trips it could increase fold equity against regs.

I agree OOP it sometimes is a good idea to ch the turn beeing OOP with a very vulnerary hand, when V range should be very tight on the turn. But imagine here you pot Flop and Turn, you would be nearly AI on the River.
MW I play as straight as I can with wet Nuts.

Originally posted by adragonro

Originally posted by WhiteWalker

Spoiler

PokerStars - $0.02 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: 65 BB (VPIP: 57.14, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)
MP: 147 BB (VPIP: 38.46, PFR: 26.92, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 27)
CO: 151 BB (VPIP: 65.91, PFR: 20.45, 3Bet Preflop: 5.00, Hands: 44)
BTN: 183 BB (VPIP: 67.50, PFR: 37.50, 3Bet Preflop: 15.38, Hands: 41)
SB: 104.5 BB (VPIP: 18.18, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 11)
Hero (BB): 100 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, Hero posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has J♣ 8♠ 7♥ 6♠

fold, MP raises to 3 BB, CO calls 3 BB, BTN calls 3 BB, fold, Hero calls 2 BB

Flop: (12.5 BB, 4 players) T♠ 7♣ 9♥
Hero bets 12 BB, fold, fold, BTN calls 12 BB

Turn: (36.5 BB, 2 players) 2♣
Hero bets 26 BB, BTN calls 26 BB

River: (88.5 BB, 2 players) T♣
Hero bets 59 BB and is all-in, BTN calls 59 BB

Spoiler

Hero shows J♣ 8♠ 7♥ 6♠ (Straight, Jack High)
(Pre 39%, Flop 80%, Turn 93%)
BTN shows T♦ K♠ 4♦ 7♠ (Full House, Tens full of Sevens)
(Pre 61%, Flop 20%, Turn 8%)
BTN wins 199.5 BB

I understand your thought proces, but first think of how V would play his hands. A nutstraight he normaly plays faster. So what is left on a dry flop ist mostly OE/GS/overpairs/2pairs/maybe Sets.
So on the Turn that brings a FD most straightdraws should fold. so the River is a ugly as it can get.
So I would bet the Turn bigger, since your hand is obvious allready and check the River allways. Folding most of the time, and calling, when is very aggro on the river.

Yeh I totally agree, this was total tilt at the time. Spite calling very annoyingly.

Not quite sure what you are saying on the OOP post @adragonro

Poker Progress
Best call from villain I have ever seen
PokerStars - $0.02 Ante $0.01 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 249 BB (VPIP: 42.86, PFR: 25.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 56)
UTG: 835.5 BB (VPIP: 29.82, PFR: 8.77, 3Bet Preflop: 3.57, Hands: 57)
MP: 165 BB (VPIP: 37.08, PFR: 7.87, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 91)
CO: 518.5 BB (VPIP: 53.23, PFR: 23.39, 3Bet Preflop: 5.88, Hands: 126)
BTN: 215 BB (VPIP: 27.75, PFR: 11.00, 3Bet Preflop: 1.32, Hands: 211)
Hero (SB): 272 BB

Hero posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB, 6 players post ante of 0.5 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 4.5 BB) Hero has A♥ 5♦ J♦ 8♥

fold, fold, CO raises to 6.5 BB, fold, Hero raises to 23.5 BB, fold, CO calls 17 BB

Flop: (51 BB, 2 players) 7♥ 3♥ 2♠
Hero bets 45 BB, CO calls 45 BB

Turn: (141 BB, 2 players) T♠
Hero bets 117 BB, CO raises to 449.5 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 86 BB and is all-in

River: (547 BB, 2 players) Q♦

Originally posted by WhiteWalker
Not quite sure what you are saying on the OOP post @adragonro

In the end I would play it b,b,ch/f

well it s not a good call he just put you on kkxx or aaxx and decided to gamble big time and you killed yourself with the bare nut fd and a gs wich i find a bit too risky for this limit.
So why did you 3b him and set up to a big pot when deep with a marginal hand from the worst pos ever?
I would`ve just call preflop and x/c the flop with such aggr fish drawing to the nuts and let him hang himself. You are too deep and it s very easy to make mistakes so should keep it simple.
Also when 3b pot it s better to x/r the flop imo rather than betting yourself because if you don`t hit what then? by x/r you have better pot odds on the turn and also more fe.
That s another way of playing this hand, hope you don`t mind my opinion.
Cheers !

A ch/r is good line to get it in with good equity on the flop.
On the Flop is is no good idea to commit yourself with round about 12 Outs and beeing OOP. Since most turn are blanks and V calls your big bet, he will barely fold to a turn bet. Where u mostly still have 12 outs at maximum.

Since the CO seems to be alittle bit on the looser side, a ch/r is a very good opportunity, to decrease his very likely flaotpotential.

Originally posted by cosminbtk
well it s not a good call he just put you on kkxx or aaxx and decided to gamble big time and you killed yourself with the bare nut fd and a gs wich i find a bit too risky for this limit.
So why did you 3b him and set up to a big pot when deep with a marginal hand from the worst pos ever?
I would`ve just call preflop and x/c the flop with such aggr fish drawing to the nuts and let him hang himself. You are too deep and it s very easy to make mistakes so should keep it simple.
Also when 3b pot it s better to x/r the flop imo rather than betting yourself because if you don`t hit what then? by x/r you have better pot odds on the turn and also more fe.
That s another way of playing this hand, hope you don`t mind my opinion.
Cheers !

This villain was donating at the table, taking flips pre for 250bb. He was limp call/ limp 3-betting a huge amount. His stats weren't crazy but over this period he was opening 100%. There was a weird dynamic with this player and I stand by my line, just sucks that he chose to go with a pair and a flush draw as opposed to my flush draw haha.

I was going to check fold turn if I think correctly but when I pick up equity on the turn I felt it was a syn not to bet. It just happened that he picked up exactly the same draw as me!

Originally posted by adragonro
A ch/r is good line to get it in with good equity on the flop.
On the Flop is is no good idea to commit yourself with round about 12 Outs and beeing OOP. Since most turn are blanks and V calls your big bet, he will barely fold to a turn bet. Where u mostly still have 12 outs at maximum.

Since the CO seems to be alittle bit on the looser side, a ch/r is a very good opportunity, to decrease his very likely flaotpotential.

I think the issue with check raising is that I tend not to do it with my value hands on this board. It is a weird board for me to be hitting with my 3-bet range but I felt like I had to rep strong, and if villain thought I was on AAxx then his call is likely abismal (70/30 on the turn against AA?). It was an awkward spot and one I felt I wasn't getting calls from many hands but hey well. We live and move on to the next bluff.

First of all is not a bluff, it s a semi-bluff and it s 10times better than a bluff
Second, you should learn more about odds, pot odds, stack to pot ratio, you should review your preflop game because it will save you a ton of money by not getting in wierd scenarios postflop, also you should learn to plan ahead and think at a more complex level.
PLO is alot about position wich you don t have in that hand, also what you are doing is pure gambling and won t beat plo10 with this mindset and plays like that.
I m not being smart or arrogant with you but it is what it is...you should listen to adragono too his advice is good here

Thank you for the flowers @cosminbtk
And very wise words! ♠_thumbsup:
Although I don't think WhiteWalker doesn't know about odds and pot odds. The rest are harsh words, but words that can lead to victory!

@WhiteWalker
I don't mind your thoughts, it is PLO2 and Vs play looser.
But why not play a bit better and get even more value.
For this hand: what do you think lets V play a wider range?
ch/r or b?

Poker Progress
@Adrogonro A bet.

In regards to the hand post:
I think that hand I just repped a hand rather than played the strengths/ lack of strength of the hand I was holding. It was hopeful of me to expect to win. My play is suffering at the minute, playing zoom is swinging a bit more than usual but the VPP's are rolling in.

Goals for the next couple days:
[*] Don't play for the sake of playing
[*] Watch the rest of Apo5tol's crushing zoom videos, take notes on postflop play and how he plays blockers, maneuvers in multiway pots etc.
[*] Take shots at PLO10 when my BR allows for it (around 30BI and take a shot)

Session Results
I haven't uploaded any session reports in the last couple days. On a downswing, play isn't the best but I feel like I am playing well in zoom. I am bluffing to much currently, bluffing/trusting blockers too much against passive opponents who are often ~90% of the time showing the nuts. I am making hero calls in zoom with two pair and the nut straight blockers which I just shouldn't do. The game plays much tighter than regular tables and as a result when high card straigths are possible I shouldn't focus too much on my blockers OOP.

I will get some leaks found from PT4 and do a whole review of the 15k or so hands I have played in the last few days. It will get me back on track and help me find where I am going wrong (which I have already noted above slightly)

I have also been messing around at the tables a little with a couple of the regs, pulling off stupid bluffs which can be expensive relative to the buy in. I will stop this and get back to focusing on correct play, of course I will share the bluffs though

Bankroll Update: $174.63

Poker Progress
What a check back from villain!