w34z3l's Poker Academy

Originally posted by Zolotarsp
I don't believe weak offsuit hands can ever be profitable 3bets OOP against any opponent, unless he's folding like 90%

well, pokemon trading cards or used napkins can be 3bet oop profitably vs anyone folding 70%, and the weak off suit hands actually have equity in the pot, so i'm pretty sure your statement is very very wrong.

@randomdonk: I probably didn't word my thought quite clear. IMO 3bet oop with weak offsuit hands is very bad as a general gameplan vs unknown, more so vs any decent opponent. Obviously, it becomes profitable once vilian starts to fold a lot; but actually we still don't want to be 3betting 100% range, and those hands are probably the worst choice of all.

Hello,

I´m trying to improve my default defending range BB vs BTN steal and I´m not sure if my work makes any sense so I would be grateful for w34z3l´s or anyone´s else feedback.

I begin with my current defending range which I have based on w34z3l´s ranges from his walktrough serie - not sure if they are the same but it should be at least similar.

My range BB vs BTN against 2,5bb open - yellow is a call, red and blue are 3bet

I think these ranges were done with the assumtion that villain opens 2,5bb. So I had 2 basic question. How to adjust my range against different sizing and also against too wide or too narrow opening range?

Now I tried to make two defending ranges against 2bb and 3bb open - both are with the assumption of open 45 % range.

Range against 2bb open:
It´s clear that we should defend wider but how wide? So I try to make calculation: we calling 1bb to 4,275 (I count 5 % rake) - so we need around 23,4 % equity. Now I put to Power-equilab 100 % range vs 45 % range and display not raw equity but equity with playbility profile: HU playability OOP

Let say I want to have slightly more so I can call with hands with at least 28 % equity so this can be my final range against 2bb open - I broke a rule that we 3bet our worst hands as a bluff - I´m not sure if it´s OK or I should really 3bet the worst suited hands instead?

I did similar think for 3bb open:
We calling 2bb into 6,175. So we need 32,4 % equity. Let say I prefer to have at least 36 %.

What do you think about it? Any idea for improve or maybe I missed something important?

Hi Ales851.
The Ranges vs. 2,5bb look reasonable. As you said, if villain opens 3bb you defend tighter and vs. 2bb you expand your coldcalling-range. But I don't think the way you did it makes too much sense. Since I'm not an expert ... what is your idea behind 3-betting hands in the middle of your coldcalling-range? On the offsuited side I would kick out 56o,67o, K5o, K6o because playability is bad and equity quite low. But it surely is close.
Your range vs 3bb open looks good to me, although I don't understand why Q3s is a better hand to 3bet than K3s for example.
Furthermore I think AQ makes a good 3bet versus most oponents - offsuited as well as suited.

Originally posted by Reiseleiter
I don't understand why Q3s is a better hand to 3bet than K3s for example. .

I agree better to use moe Kxs hands than Qxs. I would just swap Q3s and Q4s for K2-3s.

Same with 3bet-bluff range between CC range. The idea is that those hands are too weak to call so we 3bet them. When sizing is lower we have better odds and thus we can call wider and can 3bet even weaker hands

Also I think its better to defend all Kxo hands instead of 52s against 2bb

I have two hands which touch on a different topic: Folding river with bluffcatchers.

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $34.70 (138.8 bb)
BB: $37.60 (150.4 bb)
UTG: $29.76 (119 bb)
MP: $20.83 (83.3 bb)
CO: $55.72 (222.9 bb)
Hero (BTN): $40 (160 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with T 9
3 folds, Hero raises to $0.50, SB calls $0.40, BB calls $0.25

Flop: ($1.50) T 3 T (3 players)
SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $1, SB folds, BB raises to $3.28, Hero calls $2.28

Turn: ($8.06) 8 (2 players)
BB bets $5.13, Hero calls $5.13

River: ($18.32) Q (2 players)
BB bets $9.62, Hero folds

Results:

Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $25 (100 bb)
BB: $25.35 (101.4 bb)
UTG: $30.23 (120.9 bb)
MP: $130.58 (522.3 bb)
CO: $57.50 (230 bb)
Hero (BTN): $30.89 (123.6 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BTN with J 7
3 folds, Hero raises to $0.50, SB folds, BB calls $0.25

Flop: ($1.10) 7 5 7 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.80, BB calls $0.80

Turn: ($2.70) Q (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1.29, BB raises to $4.67, Hero calls $3.38

River: ($12.04) 8 (2 players)
BB bets $7, Hero calls $7

Results:

And sb-complete hand(s).

Hand 3) Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

Hero (SB): $26.96 (107.8 bb)
BB: $25 (100 bb)
UTG: $35.64 (142.6 bb)
MP: $35.47 (141.9 bb)
CO: $33.08 (132.3 bb)
BTN: $26.14 (104.6 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9 A
UTG calls $0.25, MP folds, CO calls $0.25, BTN folds, Hero completes, BB checks

Flop: ($1) 2 9 J (4 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, CO checks

Turn: ($1) J (4 players)
Hero bets $0.70, BB calls $0.70, 2 folds

River: ($2.40) 6 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.14, BB calls $1.14

Results:

UTG is unknown,
CO is 16/12 on 200 hands
BTN is 27/22 on 120 hands

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hand 4) Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

Hero (SB): $38.98 (155.9 bb)
BB: $35.32 (141.3 bb)
UTG: $25 (100 bb)
MP: $25 (100 bb)
CO: $28.97 (115.9 bb)
BTN: $25.44 (101.8 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with 7 8
2 folds, CO calls $0.25, BTN folds, Hero completes, BB checks

Flop: ($0.75) 6 J 4 (3 players)
Hero bets $0.60, BB folds, CO raises to $1.20, Hero calls $0.60

Turn: ($3.15) A (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $2.75, Hero folds

Results:

CO unknown
BB 21/14 on 110 hands

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
hand 5)
Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

Hero (SB): $27.25 (109 bb)
BB: $27.98 (111.9 bb)
UTG: $61.25 (245 bb)
MP: $46.99 (188 bb)
CO: $29.93 (119.7 bb)
BTN: $27.85 (111.4 bb)

Preflop: Hero is SB with J Q
UTG calls $0.25, 3 folds, Hero completes, BB checks

Flop: ($0.75) T 3 A (3 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG bets $0.75, Hero calls $0.75, BB folds

Turn: ($2.25) 9 (2 players)
Hero checks, UTG bets $0.75, Hero raises to $3, UTG calls $2.25

River: ($8.25) Q (2 players)
Hero bets $2.34, UTG calls $2.34

Results:

Opponents are unknown. Would you prefer iso-raising?

Hey guys, topic of today's live coaching is betting for protection

Feel free to post any related hands or questions here in the thread

First, general question regarding range construction.

Say, we 3bet SB vs CO or BB, opp calls, and flop favoures us a lot, e.g. 8♠:4♦:3♣: or T♦:2♦:2♠: or similar. On one hand, we wanna cbet a lot here, since we have more strong hands, and large portion of our range needs protection (mid/top pairs, AQ/AK). Plus, opponent almost never hits hard, so we can bluff effectively. On the other hand, we can rarely get value with our strong hands, and get it mostly from hands that would bet anyway when checked to. What's our general gameplan, how to correctly balance protection vs getting value and bluff inducing?

And, couple hands I'm not sure whether to bet or pot control. All from zoom, mostly unknown opponents.

Hand 1) Opponent is unknown, seems to be recreational player because of his stacksize.
Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $12.66 (126.6 bb)
BB: $7.03 (70.3 bb)
UTG: $10 (100 bb)
Hero (MP): $10.15 (101.5 bb)
CO: $5.14 (51.4 bb)
BTN: $5.40 (54 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP with J 9
UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.23, 3 folds, BB calls $0.13

Flop: ($0.51) J 2 Q (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.40, BB folds

Hand 2) I think that's a nice spot to bet for protection and betting probably is max-ev but I missed it. Again BB is unknown.
Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $9.20 (92 bb)
BB: $10 (100 bb)
UTG: $7.68 (76.8 bb)
Hero (MP): $14.13 (141.3 bb)
CO: $20.40 (204 bb)
BTN: $5.75 (57.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP with A 3
UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.30, 3 folds, BB calls $0.20

Flop: ($0.65) Q J 3 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($0.65) 3 (2 players)
BB bets $0.20, Hero raises to $0.80, BB calls $0.60

River: ($2.25) K (2 players)
BB bets $1.07, Hero calls $1.07

Results:

Hand 3) No sample on the opponents. BB seems to be fish because of his stack. Not sure, if a bet is good there but I think we can fold out a lot of equity and also get value from worse.
Poker Stars, $0.10/$0.25 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $25 (100 bb)
BB: $8.41 (33.6 bb)
UTG: $22.18 (88.7 bb)
Hero (MP): $35.02 (140.1 bb)
CO: $28.87 (115.5 bb)
BTN: $17.79 (71.2 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 2 A
UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.58, CO calls $0.58, 2 folds, BB calls $0.33

Flop: ($1.84) 9 7 2 (3 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $1.30, CO calls $1.30, BB folds

Turn: ($4.44) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $4.25, Hero folds

Hand 4) Again no sample on opponents. I think it is unlikely that anyone has a queen. Sometimes CO or BTN has a better pocketpair but I think they often also hold overcards to my pair which do have a lot of equity combined. I think a smaller bet would be better and I might even be losing money with this sizing.
Poker Stars, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $9.40 (94 bb)
BB: $10 (100 bb)
UTG: $4.07 (40.7 bb)
Hero (MP): $16.36 (163.6 bb)
CO: $11.55 (115.5 bb)
BTN: $24.31 (243.1 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP with 5 5
UTG folds, Hero raises to $0.30, CO calls $0.30, BTN calls $0.30, 2 folds

Flop: ($1.05) 4 6 Q (3 players)
Hero checks, CO checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($1.05) 6 (3 players)
Hero bets $0.70, 2 folds

Poker Stars $25.00 No Limit Hold'em - 6 players

BTN: $27.62 - VPIP: 27, PFR: 21, 3B: 8, AF: 1.4, Hands: 14580
SB: $47.47 - VPIP: 21, PFR: 15, 3B: 5, AF: 2.2, Hands: 14917
BB: $25.35 - VPIP: 21, PFR: 17, 3B: 9, AF: 1.9, Hands: 31405
UTG: $42.28 - VPIP: 21, PFR: 17, 3B: 4, AF: 2.9, Hands: 629
MP: $28.53 - VPIP: 27, PFR: 19, 3B: 8, AF: 2.0, Hands: 7056
Hero (CO): $44.22 - VPIP: 24, PFR: 18, 3B: 7, AF: 2.6, Hands: 320607

Pre Flop: ($0.35) Hero is CO with 6 9
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.60, BTN calls $0.60, 2 folds

Flop: ($1.55) A T 2 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN checks

Turn: ($1.55) 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $1.00, BTN calls $1

River: ($3.55) 4 (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $2.25, Hero calls $2.25

fold pref

@w34z3l: there's a coaching scheduled on thursday, at least in the calendar, but last time you said it's gonna be 2-3 weeks before next one. Will it or will it not be? Cuz I've got couple suggestions on topics for it

@bonecore, between reg-reg-reg I agree with 2reac, just fold pre. OTF I'd preffer cbet with backdoors and no sdv. After x-x it makes no sense to bet 2/3 and check the river; we either bet tiny for thin value from PPs below 9 and low FDs, or bomb 2 streets, likely overbet river, reping a set to fold his Tx and probably weaker Ax. IMHO.

Hi Zolotarsp, next two weeks are reserved for double2's coachings, so w34z3l was right Nevertheless you can always propose new topics for coachings, so go ahead

Hello guys,

thanks to you both for suggestions, I´ll try to adjust my ranges.

Originally posted by Tyradiel

Originally posted by Reiseleiter
I don't understand why Q3s is a better hand to 3bet than K3s for example. .

I agree better to use moe Kxs hands than Qxs. I would just swap Q3s and Q4s for K2-3s.

Same with 3bet-bluff range between CC range. The idea is that those hands are too weak to call so we 3bet them. When sizing is lower we have better odds and thus we can call wider and can 3bet even weaker hands

Also I think its better to defend all Kxo hands instead of 52s against 2bb

Originally posted by Zolotarsp
@w34z3l: there's a coaching scheduled on thursday, at least in the calendar, but last time you said it's gonna be 2-3 weeks before next one. Will it or will it not be? Cuz I've got couple suggestions on topics for it

Hey zolotarsp, please just post suggestions whenever!

The academy is supposed to be a community project, but tbh, I find myself just making up the topic a lot of the time because lack of suggestions =D

Ok, admittedly I haven't given out many points in a while. We have been doing live play amongst other things. Anyway, that should hopefully change in the upcoming sessions. Anyway, next player to reach rank 3 will receive a free coaching session, possibly to be put on pokerstrategy.com. Bonecore looks in good shape at the moment, but you never know!

Academy Master 300 Points

Rank 3 Academy 100 Points
Reiseleiter………………..133

Rank 2 Academy – 30 Points
Bonecore...........................95
Tyradiel............................67
Ales851..............................62
Strikerp……………………58
Zolotar…………………..54
mattyvx.................................52
FollowtheSmartMoney....46
Sftpn....................................30

Rank 1 Academy Points

8runo....................................24
IuriTPena........................... 18
Livethelife7........................15
Insomnia666.............................15
Promys.............................12
Fussel2............................14
pok3ras............................13
Theodor95........................ 12
2reac..................................7
Marteen.............................7
MrSns……………………5
Metalmoneky80/…………5
AleksandurAntov...............5
Reto27................................5
CrazyGuy………………..5
Godlike3………………….5
Mysteryman21……………5
Fksys……………………….5
Rhegar……………………..5
Ibetucry..............................4
gAsheks..............................4
l3ryl3e................................3
Trznk.................................3
KiromanAAKK..................3
Rorro1986………………..2
HHHubi.............................2
whizard82.......................... 2
Scotty837...........................1
Mmmyshor..........................1
PacnyTuH0.........................1
lukasek09......................1
Twinskat.......................1
L00000n......................1
Freedom2017................1

Originally posted by w34z3l
Hey zolotarsp, please just post suggestions whenever!

Ok then. Usually I have a lot of questions, but tend to work on them by myself - it's the most interesting part for me. That's why time is the factor

If it's fine with you, I'd like to bring up the topic of playing deep, or generally with high SPR's; when we have lots of opportunities to overbet postflop, and preflop play goes beyond a point where 5bet is eccentially an AI every time. In zoom you become deep pretty quickly, so it should actually be rather significant part of one's gameplan.

1) How should we adjust preflop ranges for 3-4betting, since we get called more often, and need to figure out how to play against 5-6bet/fold strats of our opponnets? Should we go more depolarized? Is it good to not have 5+bet ranges at all, and just call everything at certain stack depth?
2) How to adjust calling ranges (including 3+bets)? Obv, the deeper we get, the more significant position becomes; but where's the point when we say 'no, I just can't call 56s this deep'?
3) When to use this leverage postflop of being able to bet like 3x pot 2 streets in a row? Rather easy when we have 1st nuts or 1st nut blocker, but what about the other 99.99% of hands?

Couple of hands I'm not sure about.

Hi w34z3l ,
Sorry if my questions are not linked to this topic...
I am playing only Full Ring games (NL10-NL25) and would like to know if I can use in CO-BU-SB-BB the concepts and ranges you describe in '' The Evolution of Poker - Further Range Construction and Range Construction''. Same question about ''Walkthrough - Defending from the Blinds''.
Thanks for your answer and advises.