6-max - 77 on low board in 3bet pot HU

Originally posted by la55i

Originally posted by nitrol
I do not agree that this flop misses him. On NL2 villains tend to 3 bet the small pairs from SB vs CO and BTN.

I'm not sure if I agree with this. Ofc it is possible that villain 3bets lower PPs but I wouldn't say that it is a common tendency. That is just my experience.

If I was villain on this hand my cbetting range would depend on my villain. I guess I would often cbet 100% here because ppl at NL2 usually fold way too much to cbets and our second barrel would have a lot of fold equity too.

OTF we can continue with overpairs, draws, broadways.. OTT it depends much on villains bet size. You can continue with bigger overpairs and draws if you get odds.

If villain tends to double barrel a lot I think you can sometimes raise flop in this kind of situations. When you are OOP you can call flop donk turn also.

Agree that I'd be cbetting close to 100% here in villains shows.. especially with the gutshot for Ax. So I definitely cbet all Ax, all suited spade and suited club broadways. And depending on villain I'd cb other broadways as well.

We should be continuing with every overpair of course, and I guess high overcards with backdoors, and the Ax. Overpairs (which might turn into 2nd pairs) could continue on turn, while unimproved stuff we give up. And the draws of course we could continue. It would depend on bet sizes.

I have to completely disagree though with the idea of raising pairs if villain 2nd barrels a lot. I don't think we have to raise for protection. I think it's just all the more reason to call, since we have what? 70% equity vs 2 overcards? So if he's gonna weaken his range by barreling hands with 30% equity, then I see no point in raising in order to get him off those hands, leaving him with the hands that crush us. Does that make sense? I know sometimes we feel like we should raise to "avoid tough decisions" but I mean, we have to take the most profitable line, and it just doesn't sound profitable to turn a bluff catcher into a bluff when villain has a bluffing range, right?

The reason for this raising pairs is that when villain folds these overcards, they are folding good equity (30% as u said). If we just fold or call on the flop, villain can profitable cbet 100% of his range.

Originally posted by Afulibador

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by Afulibador

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by Afulibador

Originally posted by nitrol
Most NL2 players are far from the concept of defending the SB with depo range. This concept appears a little bit higher.
Villain is not making a solid 3 bet OOP but a small one... I will stick with my range.

I think its the more basic one that comes to mind in a begginer.

I will disagree here. First comes the desire to bluff, starting with value range and bluff range and then comes the conceptof the depolarised range.

What??
First starts with the desire to bluff???
I just started to bluff in 3bets way later.

So? This is what wasvwith me, so Istick with it.

Ok man, u have the right to think it differently.

Yes, I have that constitutional right. I have this type of experience.

Here is my thought process:

This is SBvBTN. Villains range is wide and doesn't necessarily hit the board. If we know that villain double barrels a lot, also with air, and we have a hand that is not so good to call turn, we should raise OTF to fold out his trash hands. This is like extending our 4bet range pre when villain 3bet a lot.

On the other hand it would be better to raise draws which have good equity and call down with hands that have showdown value. But then again are we calling always 2 streets in this kind of situations vs villain who 2barrels a lot and are we always folding river if villain bets again?

Originally posted by Afulibador

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by Afulibador

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by Afulibador

Originally posted by nitrol
Most NL2 players are far from the concept of defending the SB with depo range. This concept appears a little bit higher.
Villain is not making a solid 3 bet OOP but a small one... I will stick with my range.

I think its the more basic one that comes to mind in a begginer.

I will disagree here. First comes the desire to bluff, starting with value range and bluff range and then comes the conceptof the depolarised range.

I really think that at the moment someone starts to note what hands are good, and what hands are not. They start raising the good hands in a depolarized way. Not raising AK and than 65s, but AK and than AQ, or KQ.

Nothing like that...

So I and many friends of mine are just special guys.

Which is exactly the opposite of what me and my friends did. So, you are part of anothet school of thought.

Originally posted by Afulibador
The reason for this raising pairs is that when villain folds these overcards, they are folding good equity (30% as u said). If we just fold or call on the flop, villain can profitable cbet 100% of his range.

If we make a raise to 0.45 for example, villain will actually not get the odds to call w/ 30% equity (and I actully think his equity is slight lower than 30%), so he'll do right in folding, meaning we don't really make any money by doing that. Maybe if we raise really small to 0.35 it makes sense.

But still, think about it, if he's gonna be barreling his worse hands, why would you want to fold these out? I like bluff catching more

Originally posted by la55i
Here is my thought process:

This is SBvBTN. Villains range is wide and doesn't necessarily hit the board. If we know that villain double barrels a lot, also with air, and we have a hand that is not so good to call turn, we should raise OTF to fold out his trash hands. This is like extending our 4bet range pre when villain 3bet a lot.

On the other hand it would be better to raise draws which have good equity and call down with hands that have showdown value. But then again are we calling always 2 streets in this kind of situations vs villain who 2barrels a lot and are we always folding river if villain bets again?

If villain is barrel happy we should call two streets, imo.

Originally posted by caltabiano

Originally posted by Afulibador
The reason for this raising pairs is that when villain folds these overcards, they are folding good equity (30% as u said). If we just fold or call on the flop, villain can profitable cbet 100% of his range.

If we make a raise to 0.45 for example, villain will actually not get the odds to call w/ 30% equity (and I actully think his equity is slight lower than 30%), so he'll do right in folding, meaning we don't really make any money by doing that. Maybe if we raise really small to 0.35 it makes sense.

But still, think about it, if he's gonna be barreling his worse hands, why would you want to fold these out? I like bluff catching more

Its just because u are letting him to catch up his cards easily. As simple as that.
But I get ur point, too. But I prefer letting others to pick up free cards when they are almost dead against me.

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by Afulibador

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by Afulibador

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by Afulibador

Originally posted by nitrol
Most NL2 players are far from the concept of defending the SB with depo range. This concept appears a little bit higher.
Villain is not making a solid 3 bet OOP but a small one... I will stick with my range.

I think its the more basic one that comes to mind in a begginer.

I will disagree here. First comes the desire to bluff, starting with value range and bluff range and then comes the conceptof the depolarised range.

I really think that at the moment someone starts to note what hands are good, and what hands are not. They start raising the good hands in a depolarized way. Not raising AK and than 65s, but AK and than AQ, or KQ.

Nothing like that...

So I and many friends of mine are just special guys.

Which is exactly the opposite of what me and my friends did. So, you are part of anothet school of thought.

If so. I have to admit that its a big school my friend.

A fact is a fact. I still believe myself better...

Originally posted by la55i
This is SBvBTN. Villains range is wide and doesn't necessarily hit the board. If we know that villain double barrels a lot, also with air, and we have a hand that is not so good to call turn, we should raise OTF to fold out his trash hands. This is like extending our 4bet range pre when villain 3bet a lot.

I agree. With this u are exploiting villain tendencies in a effective way.

Originally posted by Afulibador

Originally posted by caltabiano

Originally posted by Afulibador
The reason for this raising pairs is that when villain folds these overcards, they are folding good equity (30% as u said). If we just fold or call on the flop, villain can profitable cbet 100% of his range.

Everyone can sometimes give free cardsvs a dead range. And it is villain dependent too.

If we make a raise to 0.45 for example, villain will actually not get the odds to call w/ 30% equity (and I actully think his equity is slight lower than 30%), so he'll do right in folding, meaning we don't really make any money by doing that. Maybe if we raise really small to 0.35 it makes sense.

But still, think about it, if he's gonna be barreling his worse hands, why would you want to fold these out? I like bluff catching more

Its just because u are letting him to catch up his cards easily. As simple as that.
But I get ur point, too. But I prefer letting others to pick up free cards when they are almost dead against me.

If u think yourself is better, always right, and never, ever, changes ur mind. Go with it.
I just wish u good luck

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by Afulibador

Originally posted by caltabiano

Originally posted by Afulibador
The reason for this raising pairs is that when villain folds these overcards, they are folding good equity (30% as u said). If we just fold or call on the flop, villain can profitable cbet 100% of his range.

Everyone can sometimes give free cardsvs a dead range. And it is villain dependent too.

If we make a raise to 0.45 for example, villain will actually not get the odds to call w/ 30% equity (and I actully think his equity is slight lower than 30%), so he'll do right in folding, meaning we don't really make any money by doing that. Maybe if we raise really small to 0.35 it makes sense.

But still, think about it, if he's gonna be barreling his worse hands, why would you want to fold these out? I like bluff catching more

Its just because u are letting him to catch up his cards easily. As simple as that.
But I get ur point, too. But I prefer letting others to pick up free cards when they are almost dead against me.

What u actually posted here?

Originally posted by Afulibador
If u think yourself is better, always right, and never, ever, changes ur mind. Go with it.
I just wish u good luck

Thank you so much.

Originally posted by Afulibador

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by Afulibador

Originally posted by caltabiano

Originally posted by Afulibador
The reason for this raising pairs is that when villain folds these overcards, they are folding good equity (30% as u said). If we just fold or call on the flop, villain can profitable cbet 100% of his range.

Everyone can sometimes give free cardsvs a dead range. And it is villain dependent too.

If we make a raise to 0.45 for example, villain will actually not get the odds to call w/ 30% equity (and I actully think his equity is slight lower than 30%), so he'll do right in folding, meaning we don't really make any money by doing that. Maybe if we raise really small to 0.35 it makes sense.

But still, think about it, if he's gonna be barreling his worse hands, why would you want to fold these out? I like bluff catching more

Its just because u are letting him to catch up his cards easily. As simple as that.
But I get ur point, too. But I prefer letting others to pick up free cards when they are almost dead against me.

What u actually posted here?

Everyone can sometimes give free cards vs a dead range. And it is villain dependent too.

No, u just quoted me and said nothing.

Thanks for the comments guys

Sure.
Keep rockin TerrorBlade ♠_thumbsup:

Originally posted by Afulibador
No, u just quoted me and said nothing.

It is in the text. Read and find it.