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How did i play this TT hand?

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swampyking
Joined: 05.10.2008

I only had 2 hands on villan so he´s unknown.
I was thinking of 3betting him pre but i decided just to call.

Poker Stars, $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $2.30 (115 bb)
BB: $15.10 (755 bb)
UTG: $1.99 (99.5 bb)
Hero (MP): $2.62 (131 bb)
CO: $1.89 (94.5 bb)
BTN: $2.45 (122.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP with T T
UTG raises to $0.04, Hero calls $0.04, 4 folds

Flop: ($0.11) 5 K 8 (2 players)
UTG bets $0.06, Hero calls $0.06

Turn: ($0.23) 2 (2 players)
UTG bets $0.08, Hero calls $0.08

River: ($0.39) 8 (2 players)
UTG bets $0.08, Hero calls $0.08

Results:

Spoiler

$0.55 pot ($0.02 rake)
Final Board: 5 K 8 2 8
UTG showed K 5 and won $0.53 ($0.27 net)
Hero mucked T T and lost (-$0.26 net)


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13 replies
Malendes
Joined: 03.04.2011

I would raise pre with valuehands here.


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la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

This hand is a call pre.
Imo you can generally call one street with your pair even when there is overcard on the flop. Villain could cbet a lot of air.
Turn is close to a fold but since villain bets very very small I think you can call it and same goes for river.

Well played. Take a note that villain uses very small bet sizes with good made hands.


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la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

Originally posted by Malendes
I would raise pre with valuehands here.

If you 3bet those "value hands" vs unknown UTG you end up playing with too wide unpolarized range. UTGs opening range is usually pretty tight and he will probably continue with a big portion of his range. Sometimes (quite often) he will dominate our range and we end up playing with very expensive 2nd best hand. So be careful there. Also aggressive 3betting at the micros will generate a lot of rake. You can 3bet only KK+ and then some bluffs like A5s. Other hands are profitable flats vs UTG. I know someone will disagree here. This is just my opinion :) Vs fish you could do this wider but still be careful :)


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swampyking
Joined: 05.10.2008

Ok.
Yeah, it was the small sizing that made me call both turn and river.
Thanks for the replys guys.


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swampyking
Joined: 05.10.2008

I´m not very confident yet in 3bet pots so i prefer just calling against an unknown villan who´s UTG.


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Malendes
Joined: 03.04.2011

Originally posted by la55i

Originally posted by Malendes
I would raise pre with valuehands here.

If you 3bet those "value hands" vs unknown UTG you end up playing with too wide unpolarized range. UTGs opening range is usually pretty tight and he will probably continue with a big portion of his range. Sometimes (quite often) he will dominate our range and we end up playing with very expensive 2nd best hand. So be careful there. Also aggressive 3betting at the micros will generate a lot of rake. You can 3bet only KK+ and then some bluffs like A5s. Other hands are profitable flats vs UTG. I know someone will disagree here. This is just my opinion :) Vs fish you could do this wider but still be careful :)

One of my reasons behind 3betting pre here actually was because I thought it would have been a cheaper route against hands beating us. After looking at this specific hand again, I see that 3bet pre + CBet cost the same as getting to showdown against this villain.
You definitely have some good points on why not to 3bet, but I dont see the villain 'quite often' will dominate us here. Obv. sometimes he will have better PPs, but I think TT is doing ok against his range - just wont flop that well.

Personally I like to be the aggressor, specially in NL2 where I quickly can figure out if I am behind, but if I ever go back to the cash grind I will have your advise in mind :f_thumbsup:


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swampyking
Joined: 05.10.2008

:-)


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SirPaulius
Joined: 19.11.2009

I would like to see a 3b pre, even against a tight range we still have a decent equity+position+protecting against a sqz, and most important initiative

Spoiler

http://www.pokerstrategy.com
Equity Win Tie
MP2 50.84% 50.07% 0.77% { 88+, AJs+, AJo+ }
MP3 49.16% 48.40% 0.77% { TT }


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swampyking
Joined: 05.10.2008

Ok, so if i 3bet and get 4bet i fold?
If i 3bet and he calls, i can take AA and KK out of his range and proceed from there?


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YohanN7
Joined: 15.06.2009

Just a comment. Villain didn't play this hand badly at all postflop. Flop bet is 50%, which is fine on a dry board with value. Turn bet should be smaller, not bigger percentagewise as most people make it. This is especially true on a ragged turn. (33% is on the small side, but not really too small). River bet is perfect to extract the last value against worse hands.

Edit: The reason turn bets should be smaller on average is that implied odds go down. Sure, people pick up draws on turn, but so do you.


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la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

Originally posted by Malendes

Originally posted by la55i

Originally posted by Malendes
I would raise pre with valuehands here.

If you 3bet those "value hands" vs unknown UTG you end up playing with too wide unpolarized range. UTGs opening range is usually pretty tight and he will probably continue with a big portion of his range. Sometimes (quite often) he will dominate our range and we end up playing with very expensive 2nd best hand. So be careful there. Also aggressive 3betting at the micros will generate a lot of rake. You can 3bet only KK+ and then some bluffs like A5s. Other hands are profitable flats vs UTG. I know someone will disagree here. This is just my opinion :) Vs fish you could do this wider but still be careful :)
You definitely have some good points on why not to 3bet, but I dont see the villain 'quite often' will dominate us here. Obv. sometimes he will have better PPs, but I think TT is doing ok against his range - just wont flop that well.

And do we want to play a big pot with a hand that doesn't flop that well (villain will outflop us pretty often) and it is quite possible that villain has higher pocket pairs? You can 3bet and cbet but thats it. Any higher card than T is not good and we might lose to JJ+.

Originally posted by swampyking
Ok, so if i 3bet and get 4bet i fold?
If i 3bet and he calls, i can take AA and KK out of his range and proceed from there?

This is pretty much the case. Still you can not say for sure that he doesn't have KK+. This is NL2 and there is plenty of reasons why fish doesn't 4bet those here. He might be very passive in general or then he doesn't want you to fold or then he is sure that if he shoves with KK he will always play agaist AA. :) If you want to calculate our equity vs villains 3bet calling range I would include a few combos of KK,AA just in case.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Guys, TT is a flat pre, unless we have info and try to exploit.
SirPaulius, utg we cannot 3b for value vs unknown. We have position, there are scary cards for us, we can keep the pot small and we do not need initiative that much.
Imo villain played it fine.


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Hesticus
Joined: 24.06.2008

I believe there is more than a 65% chance you flop an overcard with TT. No need for 3bet without a very very good reason.

As played, I would have taken the same line.


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