Mid pair river play

Originally posted by la55i

Originally posted by woodmo
"ppl tend to fold too much to cbets at the micros"
So why are you so happy to cbet with alot of good/semi-good hands? why not check and hope they take a stab with bad hands, or maybe catch up with a worse pair and call off 2 streets.. And if they have a good hand or a strong draw, they will most likely bet the flop, and then you can chose whatever strong range u still have in your check range to raise with, and they will probably not fold to it.

Those guys who fold too much to cbets will fold OTT too. By not cbetting we just let them improve for free. Those guys who call too much will call with weaker holdings and that is good too. Then there are those guys who stab us when we check but then we have no idea if he has Qx or air so that is why I like cbetting here. Then we can check/decide OTT.

Yea well my point is that im not afraid of letting him hit something on the turn "for free". If he has 0 on the flop. its not that likely he will catch a card on the turn that beats your hand In fact, i want him to catch something on the turn, so that he will pay 2 streets instead of 0..

Yes of course. But I will bet my Qx, sets and made straights too and villain has no clue if I have air or not. If he lets me see free turn card and I improve, he made a mistake.

I would probably stab there and stab river too. So does that mean you will call turn and river bet from villain with Jx?

haha ♦ yea ofc you would bet your nut range. you would also call or raise flop with it. Wich still gives basically zero info to CO what kind of hand you have exactly. thats not the point ♦

No Jx i would fold river, cuz i know i have alot stronger hands in my check/call range, this is why im not afraid of it. i know my range ♦

Anyway, this was fun but i gotta go to sleep. I'll check in tomorrow and see whats up take care

Originally posted by woodmo

Originally posted by la55i

Originally posted by woodmo
"ppl tend to fold too much to cbets at the micros"
So why are you so happy to cbet with alot of good/semi-good hands? why not check and hope they take a stab with bad hands, or maybe catch up with a worse pair and call off 2 streets.. And if they have a good hand or a strong draw, they will most likely bet the flop, and then you can chose whatever strong range u still have in your check range to raise with, and they will probably not fold to it.

Those guys who fold too much to cbets will fold OTT too. By not cbetting we just let them improve for free. Those guys who call too much will call with weaker holdings and that is good too. Then there are those guys who stab us when we check but then we have no idea if he has Qx or air so that is why I like cbetting here. Then we can check/decide OTT.

Yea well my point is that im not afraid of letting him hit something on the turn "for free". If he has 0 on the flop. its not that likely he will catch a card on the turn that beats your hand In fact, i want him to catch something on the turn, so that he will pay 2 streets instead of 0..

The problem is that if an Ace/King/T come on turn it may kill the action and you may not take more streets here. TT-88 may call once on flop but never on turn.

Originally posted by la55i
I would probably stab there and stab river too. So does that mean you will call turn and river bet from villain with Jx?

Not calling the river with Jx here.

Well it is a basic strategy for me to stab river too. So it is working. That is one more reason why I don't like skipping cbet and going to x/c mode, we are vulnerable to bluffs. By cbetting we can take other lines and protect ourselves from that

Stab is different from call.

Yea but I meant that if I was villain and I was stabbing with air I would stab river too. That is why I don't like hero's line so much because we cannot just x/c 2 streets and villain might bluff us.

My standard line OOP would be bet/bet and x/f river unimproved. This time I decided to x/ call turn as nitrol has said many times that pair+ draw is standard x/call ott.

I x/caller river too and villain showed ATs.

I don't like x/call flop OOP as I don't want to lose initiative + give away the hand strength. IP my standard line would be to x back flop.

About "giving away hand strength" . This would not be the case if you include strong hands such as TP in your x/call range. Thats why it is not a problem to x/call middlepair. Then the opponent cant go ham on your checks, this is why you need to include strong hands in your flop-check-range.