Multiway pot - suspicious hand - collusion?

no evidence of collusion at all. it's way more likely that btn and bb are both fishes, bb calls down because he has a gutshot and btn just sees an opportunity to play his own gutshot aggressively. the board is so drawy that any of the three players could have pretty much anything.
and the strong collusion play would be for BB to pot the river as you would need pretty much close to QT having btn left to act

Yeah ok i think i'm happy now

I just find that I always run exceptionally bad and random things always happen whenever I try to make the shot to 5nl. It messes with my head when something like this happens, especially when BB looks like a regular and I'm not familiar with how the game plays.

Originally posted by NothingIsForSho
Yeah ok i think i'm happy now

I just find that I always run exceptionally bad and random things always happen whenever I try to make the shot to 5nl. It messes with my head when something like this happens, especially when BB looks like a regular and I'm not familiar with how the game plays.

If u keep playing that safe, shit will happen to u
I guess u overrate the NL5

No collusion. Just a hand you played bad and let 2 players try to outdraw you...
1. Open for 3BB at least. With your small open you invite the players from behind to join.
2. Why do you skip the flop cbet? You can extract value from weaker hands and draws.
3. The bet on turn is ridiculously small.

Originally posted by nitrol
No collusion. Just a hand you played bad and let 2 players try to outdraw you...
1. Open for 3BB at least. With your small open you invite the players from behind to join.
2. Why do you skip the flop cbet? You can extract value from weaker hands and draws.
3. The bet on turn is ridiculously small.

What stake are you at nowadays and what site do you play?

or do you just spend your time posting comments here?

I play NL2-Nl5 ... All day every day.
Now what? This will not make your play more correct....

And you should answer why do you open so small from UTG? Why do you skip the cbet on flop?
And please, do not answer to lure and not to scare them...

Originally posted by nitrol
I play NL2-Nl5 ... All day every day.
Now what? This will not make your play more correct....

And you should answer why do you open so small from UTG? Why do you skip the cbet on flop?
And please, do not answer to lure and not to scare them...

in order to gain something in a strategy game, you have to give something up in return. betting is good and checking is good. when you bet you make your opponents call with hands they would otherwise check that are worse. when you check you make your opponents bet with hands they would otherwise fold that are worse. for example, if i bet, i gain the equity of 'extracting value', but lose money by not allowing the players to bluff or burning money if someone has a set, etc.

by the way the phrase 'extracting value' is a ridiculous one that people should stop using, especially when you only hold one pair in a multiway pot. lol it's such a level one idea to check so as to not scare your opposition.

And by the way, if you compare the theoretical EV of AA in this spot vs the amount of money I actually made, I'm outperforming my EV so ridiculously much here that actually wishing you made more money by "extracting maximum value" is ridiculous in reality.

And the thing about sizing is that any sizing is correct if you use the right range.

At the end of the day the key point behind checking here or doing this or that is that i'm not going to assume my opponents are retards. In fact, trying to find what was going on behind this hand was the reason why I thought the players were suspicious in the first place. Another player would immediately think 'oh these players are just two idiots calling with no hand and a gutshot', but I don't think that way.

I've been playing for a few thousand hands now and am up a couple of buyins now so hopefully this good run will stick at this stake finally~!

It's never easy adjusting to a new stake. The players at 5nl seem to be better players than at 2nl for sure - I can see that they are thinking about their decisions more - but I can still see there are plenty of weaker players there too so I'm more confident than I was a few hours ago.

lol, you make me laugh.
Not cbetting the flop is ridiculous. You have a connected, flush draw board and you can make weaker pairs and draws pay to see the turn card.
There are a lot of cards on turn that can complete a draw or that can kill the action. You bet exactly to extract value.
Yes, there will be times when you will face sets or 2p BUT the combos of pairs and draws are much more.
I do not like letting 2 players draw for free on this board.

Well, two things are for certain here:

1) Probably both of them are fish, with BTN obviously beeing one
2) It's true, that opening for 2BB you invite such hands in the play

Originally posted by NothingIsForSho
[..] especially when BB looks like a regular and I'm not familiar with how the game plays.

How did you came to such conclusions?

Originally posted by NothingIsForSho

I just find that I always run exceptionally bad and random things always happen whenever I try to make the shot to 5nl. It messes with my head when something like this happens

This and your long answer to nitrol makes me think about risks of beeing tilted from the get go when climbing a limit.

As for the hand itself, we definetly want to bet the flop. Yes, it is multi-way, which means against resistance we are going to fold more often, but at the same time I've seen just about enough miracles in NL2-25 multi-way pots, where villains call two streets w/2nd pair or 9-high flushdraws against two+ players, while I'm folding my overpairs. We must get value from all the draws, pairs etc. while we can.

As for "extracting value", well playing like this you are extracting the sole minimum. Suppose you hit A OTT. Or running flush. How do you get the money in if there are ~7BBs in the pot?

But yeah, don't overrate NL5, it's still micros and although there will be less shit-plays that are typical to NL2, it's still pretty soft and you'll see a lot of weird things, crap hands and all the rest loose-pasive fishes has to offer. Just be on the lookout for the occasional, yet bad reg and it'll be fine. Cheers!

I see no reason to open so small pre flop. Standard would be 3bb and when UTG you can go even bigger. This open would be good to steal blinds from BTN/SB but from UTG it is just bad.
Also not cbetting this hand is quite terrible. Your small open lures all kind of fish with random holdings in. The pot is drawy and you let those guys chase their draws for free. Make a solid cbet here to get value from weaker hands and draws.
I don't know about theoretical EV of AA in this spot but I know that this hand was not so well played.

Even if it were, let them try to collude or whatever Your job is to get fat value at the micros.

As others have said above, I think from UTG you should've opened larger. Also, you can't miss c-betting the flop, specially because it's 2-suited. The turn bet is very small, the way the hand was played I think you can call.

On NL5 is still very common people to enter pots with any 2 suited card, and call large bets with gutshots.

NOT playing any two suited in the position of both BU and BB for that price would be criminal. Then drawing at a gutter to a four-straight (or bluffing with too small bets with it) is questionable, but hardly a sign of collusion. It is just poor micro-stakes play (as was yours this hand). Nothing new under the sun.