AA villain shoves flop on 4-bet pot

I think this is a straightforwards stack off in a 4bet pot .

I do not think it is an easy play here. We are way behind ...

Low stack to pot ratio in a 4 bet pot. I think Cbet on flop is fine. Using a narrow range of kk,99,jj,ak,kq you have 55 % ! How are we way behind ? and if we take kq out we have 45 % !

the play is usually to not fold. here too

think more about betsizing

Yeah I think the sizing on the flop is too big since your making it harder for villian to continue with a weaker range. I like 1/3 to 1/2 pot cbet .

I was also thinking about the bet size. In 4bet pots we have to cbet flop smaller. If we want to go for 2 streets (which is the case in this situation), we have to cbet the flop slightly more than 1/3 pot, like 20BB. Then we will have a comfortable shove on OTT. If we look at the hand, it's not a very good situation to be in on the flop, but with 22% pot odds I think we have to call our overpair + nut BDFD + nut BDSD in a 4bet pot. I believe he could have some AK there or maybe KcQc sometimes. It's probably close.

Not sure how to play vs shove if we would have cbet 20BB because we would have need more equity to call, but I guess calling would still be fine (but folding would become more enticing).

If we bet 20bb we should fold vs the raise.

Originally posted by Alleen86
I was also thinking about the bet size. In 4bet pots we have to cbet flop smaller. If we want to go for 2 streets (which is the case in this situation), we have to cbet the flop slightly more than 1/3 pot, like 20BB. Then we will have a comfortable shove on OTT. If we look at the hand, it's not a very good situation to be in on the flop, but with 22% pot odds I think we have to call our overpair + nut BDFD + nut BDSD in a 4bet pot. I believe he could have some AK there or maybe KcQc sometimes. It's probably close.

Not sure how to play vs shove if we would have cbet 20BB because we would have need more equity to call, but I guess calling would still be fine (but folding would become more enticing).

Originally posted by nitrol
If we bet 20bb we should fold vs the raise.

If we had bet 20bb, we would need 30% equity to call.

I don't have equilab here right now, but I think the only way we don't get the 30% equity is if we only give him hands against which we are already behind, like JJ, 99, KK or QT, but with most of those hands, it wouldn't make sense to call pre-flop.

What range do you give him? What about KK-JJ and AK? Against this range we have more than 33% equity I guess (don't have Equilab here).

we have hardly 20-22%, so it is not an easy call.

Originally posted by nitrol
we have hardly 20-22%, so it is not an easy call.

20-22% against which range?

Because against KK-JJ and AK, it's 3 combos of KK and 3 of JJ against which we are behind, vs 6 combos of QQ and 6 of AK that we beat. Actually, it's more than 50% (I don't know why I said 33% in my previous comment). Or did I do something wrong?

What range do you guys give villain here?

What QQ? They will not play like that...

Could we just shove pre and hope for call?
As played I think flop sizing is quite big. And the call is not that easy. I don't see villain shoving with QQ. KK and JJ are possible + some combo draws, but since we block nut FD I think sets are most likely.

Originally posted by nitrol
What QQ? They will not play like that...

He actually had QQ. =P That's why I was keeping it in his range.

But even if we remove QQ and add 99, we would have 40% equity against KK, JJ, 99 and AK.

My doubt is what range to give him. Should this situation happen again vs unknown, should I give him only sets?

QQ goes hand in hand with AK . If you remove the one, you remove the other.
It is not common play for QQ. Just make a note on that one.

I would not like the call but there is too much dead money now and I would get it in here with the thought of having showdown value.

Originally posted by robin261187

Originally posted by nitrol
What QQ? They will not play like that...

He actually had QQ. =P That's why I was keeping it in his range.

But even if we remove QQ and add 99, we would have 40% equity against KK, JJ, 99 and AK.

My doubt is what range to give him. Should this situation happen again vs unknown, should I give him only sets?

Assigning realistic ranges is hard. For starters, once you put, say as an example, KK in his range, then you really need to ask yourself how often is someone calling a 4-bet OOP with KK. Right, it is possible, but don't assign to him all 3 combos of it. Maybe something like 1 combo. Treat other possible hands the same way and add some bluffs. (People do bluff you know. At least some do.) Then, with some practice, one can find a reasonable range, that will work on average, that you can base decisions on.

Once you find yourself as a favorite on this board in this spot, then simply conclude your range estimate has about zero value, and go back to the drawing board.

Thanks YohanN7. It's a good thing to give villain just a few combos of some hands when it's unlikely that he has those, like in your KK example. I haven't thought of this. Good advice

It is easy to put that into Equilab as well because you can chose suits and get the right number (say K♣:K♠: only in the example).

Also, you don't have to do this in spots where ranges are not tight. They are tight here because he called a 4-bet:)