NL10 ~ 76s bluff

I open 76s from UTG too. But that is the weakest holding I will have there. Calling a 3bet with this from UTG is very bad in my opinion.
Calling the flop is very bad too. You have backdoor draws but the board is paired. And those backdoors are really not that great.
Then you decide to bluff villain with 0 equity which I think is a bit too risky.
The board is completely blank for anything else but aces, and the river card isn't that great either because it improves some of villains hands. I would not bet the river either.

When deep it is ok to call. We have better implieds.

Postflop is funny and wrong at the same time.

lassie, we'e deep. 220bb. the call is fine. And at wost we have 0% equity (if he has a boat), we have a gutshot. Which i know is nothing, but i dont think the float is that bad.

Nitol, what does that mean. If you'e going to post, post something of use.

I do not see a valid reason for your postflop play. You can do this only if you have specific info and I am not sure about that.
Board is paired you have weak backdoor and you start pouring money into the pot. You should not invest unless you have a solid plan how to win your money back.
I hope this is of use.

I still don't agree that we can flat 100% range just because we are deep.
You open from UTG and villain is OOP. This means he should 3bet you with a tight range and probably polarized. Even his 3bet bluffs beat you. And the chance you hit something strong with this hand OTF is small.

You can of course call this if you want to but I can not be convinced to call just because we are deep

SCs can be played when deep. They gain from this. PP too.

Yea but come on. In my range this is the absolute worst hand. If we look at raw equity against villains probable 3betting range any other hand in my opening range has more equity.
If we call this we are calling any pocket pair to setmine too and why not call any AXs because they are suited, have a blocker and have better raw equity?

That means we are calling almost 100% range vs 3bets when deep.

This hand hits strong on flops very rarely and if it hits, it is usually so clear that we have a strong hand that we will not win big pots. We will win overpairs by the river only about 20% of the time. The best case scenario is that we hit a draw that requires us to pour even more money in the pot. And even then there is a chance that villain hits a stronger flush or a straight, because even his polarized 3bet bluffs are better than this hand.

Basically you are saying that we can make this call preflop because we have so good implied odds. That we will win so big pots often enough that this is a good call pre. I already said in my previous post that I don't think this is the case and just simply saying "we can play this when deep" doesn't convince me.
If you are sure that we can call this, I assume you can somehow prove that we can make profit with this?

Originally posted by la55i
Yea but come on. In my range this is the absolute worst hand. If we look at raw equity against villains probable 3betting range any other hand in my opening range has more equity.
If we call this we are calling any pocket pair to setmine too and why not call any AXs because they are suited, have a blocker and have better raw equity?

That means we are calling almost 100% range vs 3bets when deep.

This hand hits strong on flops very rarely and if it hits, it is usually so clear that we have a strong hand that we will not win big pots. We will win overpairs by the river only about 20% of the time. The best case scenario is that we hit a draw that requires us to pour even more money in the pot. And even then there is a chance that villain hits a stronger flush or a straight, because even his polarized 3bet bluffs are better than this hand.

Basically you are saying that we can make this call preflop because we have so good implied odds. That we will win so big pots often enough that this is a good call pre. I already said in my previous post that I don't think this is the case and just simply saying "we can play this when deep" doesn't convince me.
If you are sure that we can call this, I assume you can somehow prove that we can make profit with this?

Well lassie, when your right your right.
You gain my vote haha, I played this hand terribly.
I'm really struggling with bluffs, I watched a video of weasels and he talks about backdoor equity and I look at this hand like " yeah backdoor equity!" And spew the whole fuwkin stack. I swear I'm not this bad. Honest.

I am not writing this to convince anyone anything.
You have brain and can think and evaluate. Just because you disagree it doesn't mean you are right.
For me this is good when deep.
I do not see a reason to call AXs but we can profittably set mine with PPs. We have good implieds to do so.

in fact we should play more SCs and PPs instead of Ax and Broadways.
Which means that you are not calling with your whole range.
The bigger stack size makes different part of your range more playable than other.

I know you are not trying to convince me. And I'm not necessarily right, just telling my opinion just like you

I know that suited connectors are better when deep, but in this case (3bet pot, tight ranges) I think calling is not good. I tried to reason this with the fact that we would call too much + we still don't hit very often + villains 3bet bluffs can dominate us even if we hit strong.

I can think and evaluate things, yes. But you haven't given me any facts or anything about your thought process that would make me think that maybe I'm wrong? Can you at least tell me why it is ok when we are deep? Is it ok because someone said so 5 years ago or do you have any math, range analysis, any reasoning to back that up?

We would not call too much as we will fold a good chunk.
Ask Snowie if it is ok and why.
I wrote you 10 times we have good implieds to chase our draws. The tight ranges speak more for the good implieds as villain can pay us off with TP hand.
What math did you provide?

Calling pre is definitely fine. We are up against a very strong range when BB 3bets UTG therefore we want hands that retain equity/do well vs that strong range and can cooler them on some boards.

This is the worst flop in the deck for you, float is ok if villain is 3betting 10% range and abetting then giving up a fair bit. If we call flop, we can bet 1.50$ on turn get him to fold all his broadway bluffs. I doubt he bets QQ,KK on the flop. So his turn check range is Ax and air. Once he calls turn, his river range is AJs+, AA sometimes QQ,KK. So bluffing him off that is crazy :).

Correct me if I'm wrong but theoretically we must defend at least around 33% vs his 3bet to prevent him making autoprofit. If I called suited connectors and pocket pairs and big AX hands I would be defending 66% of my range here.
I checked this with Snowie, it would not open this hand in the first place. Since we open it would recommend to call because it is 0.07bb +EV. But it would do so also when 100bb deep, so not sure if that answer really helps.
You wrote that we get good implied odds. I wrote that I don't think we do. Villain will be able to give up overpairs when flush/straight hits, and it doesn't hit so often. Also what about the times when our flush is the second best and we lose our whole stack? There are reverse implieds too.

We can't know for sure how much implieds we have, right? So we have to make a guess. You think we have enough, I think we don't. So we just have to agree to disagree here.
I didn't provide any math to support my thinking but I tried to give some reasons. Like that even villains bluff range will dominate us and there are reverse implieds.

I do not get why do you bother that you will defend more than 33%. So what? In this sole situation you will defend more but this should not bother you.
If Snowie says we should call then let's do it.
I hope you know that flush vs flush is not that often to make it countable.
I understand what you say but I think the pros are more than the cons.
I will disagree that villain will fold overpair and I think he will barrel himself there.