[Closed] 6.50$ 22 Itm

For me, yes. BB should fold to shove especially if SB doesnt push.

As BTN I normally shove any pair.

The only thing that might prevent me from doing it in this case was if I had a read on BB calling (almost) with ATC.
Then I might just wait this round out and see if SB was "eaten" by the blinds.

BB has to fold everything but AA when SB is about to blind out, why risk coming 3rd when 2nd is probably 2 hands away

I know that BB has to fold but sometimes you face villans that don't know they are supposed to fold

If I had a read that I was up against such a player I would consider folding.

But the standard play here would be to push.

I would just call here and try to check it down with the BB here to try and bust the small stake. no need to risk you're chiplead here.

I shove ATC if BB is not a (decent) regular, perhaps ~65-70% vs regular

edit: ATC against every BB that doesn't know he can call "relativly loose" ^^

Hi all,

Originally posted by sirilidion
I would just call here and try to check it down with the BB here to try and bust the small stake. no need to risk you're chiplead here.

You are thinking wrong! When we are the chipleader we very rarely want to just "check it down" against our opponent. We want to continually put pressure on our opponents and force them to fold and give us small pots without showdown!

So.. we have an easy push here. Put pressure on BB!

Originally posted by chenny8888
Hi all,

Originally posted by sirilidion
I would just call here and try to check it down with the BB here to try and bust the small stake. no need to risk you're chiplead here.

You are thinking wrong! When we are the chipleader we very rarely want to just "check it down" against our opponent. We want to continually put pressure on our opponents and force them to fold and give us small pots without showdown!

So.. we have an easy push here. Put pressure on BB!

i totally disagree.

if we push we flip almost against the shorty with little dead money.

if the other guy calls we are behind.

i think A fold is the absolute correct decision here.

hm. I don't think this is a spot Nash is wrong.. so here's Nash:

(Nash)

Originally posted by marcelhermus

Originally posted by chenny8888
Hi all,

Originally posted by sirilidion
I would just call here and try to check it down with the BB here to try and bust the small stake. no need to risk you're chiplead here.

You are thinking wrong! When we are the chipleader we very rarely want to just "check it down" against our opponent. We want to continually put pressure on our opponents and force them to fold and give us small pots without showdown!

So.. we have an easy push here. Put pressure on BB!

i totally disagree.

if we push we flip almost against the shorty with little dead money.

if the other guy calls we are behind.

i think A fold is the absolute correct decision here.

This is obviously +EV because of the high blinds and huge FE against BB ^^
A lot of dead money BTW, SB has les then 1BB. Folding makes no sense imo. 22 would pretty much always be a shove first-in here, no mather what the stacksizes are. Here it's just heavy +$EV.

fed it to the sng lizard, assuming ATC callrange for sb (not sure if ATC is optimal here? shoulden't make a lot of difference anyway since he'll often enough call ATC) BB can call up to 30% before this is -$EV.

I think I'm pushing this, too. But I don't think it's that straightforward.

That said, if we'd normally push 2,2 against BB HU, then my instinct says it's right to push here. SB has so few chips that I don't think his existence in the hand counts for that much and probably shouldn't impact on our decision.

On the other hand...whadoiknow?

Originally posted by Tim64
I think I'm pushing this, too. But I don't think it's that straightforward.

That said, if we'd normally push 2,2 against BB HU, then my instinct says it's right to push here. SB has so few chips that I don't think his existence in the hand counts for that much and probably shouldn't impact on our decision.

On the other hand...whadoiknow?

SB in the hand is really significant!
Lets imagine for a minute that you are the BB and you are sitting with 99 for example. You have 800 chips in already, BU shoves and SB calls off last of his chips.
You know that if SB busts out leaving you heads up with a decent stack you increase your money obviously and have a shot at winning.
So do you call with 99 or fold it. I say you should fold. BU could have you beat already or could easily outflop you. What happens if SB actually wins and you bust out 3rd?
On the same basis, if BU limps in what do you do? Either check it down or more likely you shove over.
So for BU with 22, definately shove, make BB fold. Worst thing is SB wins, so what, you actually only lose 320 chips (560 to SB less 240 you win from BB), you are still big chippie and can exert even more pressure on both players thereby picking up more easy pots.
If your 22 wins, you knock out SB and pick up 800 from BB at same time.
If you fold 22 pre flop, either SB doubles or BB increase his stack by 560, not a significant incresae I agree but why give him the chance?
Never give a sucker an even break, you have to kick them when they are down!!

99 would be an easy call for BB, you know hero( BU) shoves loose and know SB calls with ~ATC. You only place 3rd if SB and BU have a better hand, and 99 is good against the ranges.

Hi Rhin,

SB in the hand is really significant!

You've lost me a bit, I'm afraid. I'm not saying you can ignore SB, only that you would make the same decision if there were no SB. Do you disagree?

i.e. Ignoring BB for a moment, are you're saying it makes a difference to BU's decision, whether to push or fold, depending on whether it is 3 handed (with shortie SB) or heads up?

Because if, in this particular situation, you advise pushing with 22 as BU it seems like you must be saying that heads up you would not push. And that can't be right, surely?

No m8 what I am saying is that it makes a difference ( or at least should do) to BB's decision whether to call or not, which in turn makes a difference to how you play it.
Per my example, if you shove 22 HU and BB has 99 its an instacall for him, but with SB still in its not so straight forward a call for the reasons mentioned.

Ok, I think I understand. What you're saying is that, because BB is less likely to call with SB still in the hand, it's even easier to make the decision to push with 2,2.

But you're not disagreeing that it's a push either way. Is that it?

Cheers,
Tim

More or less, the point is, if you push with SB still in BB should lay down therefore, providing you beat SB you not only knock him out but you pick up 800 that BB has already put in also.
Not disagreeing that 22 is shove either way, some people might play it different and I might just raise with it HU but ulimately unless I have really good reads I am happy to get it all in pre flop HU with any PP.