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All-in donk bet on river with trips

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KittBizi
Joined: 17.11.2008

$0.10/$0.25 No Limit Holdem
PokerStars
6 Players
Hand Conversion Powered by WeakTight Poker Hand History Converter

Stacks:
UTG Player4 ($25.35) 101bb
UTG+1 Player5 ($25) 100bb
CO Player6 ($26.18) 105bb
BTN Player1 ($24.08) 96bb
SB Player2 ($23.54) 94bb
BB Hero ($25.35) 101bb

Pre-Flop: (0.35, 6 players) Hero is BB 7♦: 7♥:
4 folds, Player2 raises to $0.75, Hero calls $0.50
Flop: A♦: K♣: 7♣: ($1.50, 2 players)

Player2 bets $0.75, Hero raises to $2.30, Player2 calls $1.55

Turn: 8♦: ($6.10, 2)
Player2 checks, Hero bets $5.60, Player2 calls $5.60

River: 9♣: ($17.30, 2)
Player2 goes all-in $14.89

Hero ?

Is this donk bet always a flush?
Easy fold or easy call?

I probably should raise way bigger on the flop and go broke on the turn ...


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16 replies
GleDi713
Joined: 19.07.2017

If you put him on a flush every raise is +EV on the flop, but maybe you can make him make a more costly mistake if you raise a bit more. The other player has only 8 outs (because Ac give you a full house) and you also have 7 outs to improve into a better hand ( 3 aces, 3 kings and a 7). So your raise is enough to close that gap and give you an advantage on the long run.
Moreover you probably would fold if 4 clubs would be on the board in the river and also considering the fact that he would certainly go broke if the ace of clubs hit.


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la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

Is this donk bet always a flush?

No. But this line looks very strong. Especially when we consider that you did not 3bet pre from these positions so it pretty much excludes AA,KK,AK from your range. He would be stupid if he shipped a higher set or 2pair when flush completes since you quite likely have that.

Easy fold or easy call?

Theoretically this hand might be one of your strongest hands here and you have to defend something. If I calculated correctly you must defend top 55% of your range here.
But since his move doesn't make much sense and population tendencies show that call-call-donk is often a very strong line, I might say that this is an easy fold :)

I probably should raise way bigger on the flop

Don't know if it should be way bigger. This is already 3x. These sizings were enough to get it all in by the river without overbetting so imo it looks ok.


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KittBizi
Joined: 17.11.2008

Thanks for the insights guys. In general I found that it is better to fold vs these type of lines (that don't make much sense on first sight).
I've come up on the shorter end of the stick way to often when calling in these type of situations.
As you say la55i, call-call-donk are very strong hands 9 out of 10 times.


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Mozzek
Joined: 16.07.2016

This is standard 3b pre. Otf i would like to see a bigger raise, a fish is gonna call u. Ott its ok. Otr its a fold. If were lucky we are facing ak. But i dont see that happening often. I would just fold it. But i agree with la55i that if we fold there we are very likely to be unbalanced. But who cares ur opp is a weak player, he is not gonna exploit it ;).


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marsa08
Joined: 30.01.2014

I'd fold. Your line is strong and his line vs your line is even stronger play. He has flush often. Sure the fold its exploitable but being exploitable is different than being exploited :P


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Coach
LemOn36
Joined: 07.02.2009

I'd call flop
keep his weak hands in and then take it from there
as played yeah really good fold even thought you never have a flush here and will literally fold 100% of your range
but it's annoying why I prefer a flat otf


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bodycheck
Joined: 09.09.2012

Why we have not flushes OTR? I play probably differently than you :f_ugly: :O But vilain dont know that.


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la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

Hero didn't 3bet pre so that probably excludes a lot of nut flushes. Personally I 3bet the best AXs and weakest AXs hands and now 7c and 9c block the hands that I would just flat pre. Those also block many of our suited connectors. So hero doesn't have that many flush draws and it wouldn't make much sense to raise those OTF and then barrel turn big.

Only reasonable hands I can find quickly is JcTc and 6c5c that have a strong draw.


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Coach
LemOn36
Joined: 07.02.2009

Originally posted by bodycheck
Why we have not flushes OTR? I play probably differently than you :f_ugly: :O But vilain dont know that.

see your only value hand here is 77 MAYBE A7 (do you want to raise that on the flop really?)
Nut-FDs you have the A going with so there's no point in raising then potting turn
non-nutfd you really don't want to get in on the flop and it's just easier to float with them
And you rep very few value hands - you rep way more when you actually just call keep all your Ax in so you definitely want to play your draws that way also.

And that's against a good player, vs someone you suspect might be a fun player you definitely have no reason to raise

So yeah, I'd say you never have a flush as played nor should have


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Dadramel
Joined: 10.08.2014

Does he call the psb on the turn with only a fd


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Varune
Joined: 24.04.2009

Originally posted by LemOn36

And that's against a good player, vs someone you suspect might be a fun player you definitely have no reason to raise

You'll miss ALOT of value if you don't raise this vs recreational players. Do you expect them to Barrel off with undercards here? A recreational player isn't going to fold Ax vs a raise directly. Plus we charge their draws. We don't really care about their Kx in their range, they're not going to spew alot of money in with Kx, rec or reg. Nor do we care about balance vs recs.

Originally posted by Dadramel
Does he call the psb on the turn with only a fd

No, but combine it with the donkshove then his range probably is.

Originally posted by Mozzek
This is standard 3b pre.

whut?


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bodycheck
Joined: 09.09.2012

Lemon:
Thanks for reply. But what is your bluffing range in this spot? One of the first thing which i learned in poker is that i want bluff with draws. I dont see problem with raising cbet with Qhigh FD in this spot, barell turn and give up river (on blank river and without vilains donk), where i would bluff some blocker hands e.g. 7x.

Originally posted by LemOn36
non-nutfd you really don't want to get in on the flop and it's just easier to float with them
And you rep very few value hands

Do you suppose vilain to overdefend vs your raise and barell because you rep narrow value range? Then we probably want underbluff this spot, but its just assumption.

Sorry for my english, its my first contributions to english section.


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Coach
LemOn36
Joined: 07.02.2009

Originally posted by Varune

Originally posted by LemOn36

And that's against a good player, vs someone you suspect might be a fun player you definitely have no reason to raise

You'll miss ALOT of value if you don't raise this vs recreational players. Do you expect them to Barrel off with undercards here? A recreational player isn't going to fold Ax vs a raise directly. Plus we charge their draws. We don't really care about their Kx in their range, they're not going to spew alot of money in with Kx, rec or reg. Nor do we care about balance vs recs.

Originally posted by Dadramel
Does he call the psb on the turn with only a fd

No, but combine it with the donkshove then his range probably is.

Originally posted by Mozzek
This is standard 3b pre.

whut?

I'm talking about flush draws here
vs a fun player it's not a big deal either way with 77.
If you know he's so sticky He won't fold Ank vs raise +bet shove then yeah raise always
All we know is he doesn't have full stack here though


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Coach
LemOn36
Joined: 07.02.2009

Originally posted by bodycheck
Lemon:
Thanks for reply. But what is your bluffing range in this spot? One of the first thing which i learned in poker is that i want bluff with draws. I dont see problem with raising cbet with Qhigh FD in this spot, barell turn and give up river (on blank river and without vilains donk), where i would bluff some blocker hands e.g. 7x.

Originally posted by LemOn36
non-nutfd you really don't want to get in on the flop and it's just easier to float with them
And you rep very few value hands

Do you suppose vilain to overdefend vs your raise and barell because you rep narrow value range? Then we probably want underbluff this spot, but its just assumption.

Sorry for my english, its my first contributions to english section.

See this is the way the ranges work on these boards
it's drastically better for the preflop raiser here
He has all his AA KK AK which you literally never have
A7s you should play mixed, and many people 3bet always anyways.
77 you can also mix in 3bets
You also shouldn't have many strong aces either.
So basically most of your range is capped at weak aces, draws, and Kx so when you have a hand like 77 you want to keep that in your flatting range or you're so easy to vbet against and when you call you're just left with really weak range and draws when you call (which is craploads of time BvB).
People can vbet against you and bluff wide also so you get value anyways

Yeah it's true you rep almost nothing when you raise so he should call you down light, so you can do it with 77 rarely bluff but it really messes with the rest of your ranges, why you do it against recs that won't barrel you, won't vbet light as they should and will pay you off for multiple streets very wide when you raise 77 at the same time


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Coach
LemOn36
Joined: 07.02.2009

As to what's my bluff range vs someone decent: nothing I just always call everything when the board's this bad for me, it's just way simpler
I guess Ideally you'd have a small raising range here with a pretty complicated mixed strategy that'd take some time to map out, I just don't think it's worth it with so many easier edges to work out when what you play just NL100 and lower.


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Mozzek
Joined: 16.07.2016

Varune: For me it´s standard 3b pre, but it can be call as well, sorry, I interpreted it wrong.


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