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Yes, they have a cheating software. Nothing is random there. You can lie alone as is the variance or the luck of the fish. The truth is that the 888 have modified the RNG to help weak players to win. I've played on 888 since 2010 and i tell you, there is a big difference between the RNG since then and now.
Pacific, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
SB: $11.47 (114.7 bb)
BB: $4 (40 bb)
Hero (MP): $10 (100 bb)
CO: $12.40 (124 bb)
BTN: $10.50 (105 bb)
Preflop: Hero is MP with K♠: A♥:
Hero raises to $0.30, CO calls $0.30, BTN folds, SB raises to $1.30, BB folds, Hero raises to $3, CO folds, SB raises to $11.47 and is all-in, Hero calls $7.00 and is all-in
Flop: ($20.40) J♣: Q♦: 2♠: (2 players, 2 are all-in)
Turn: ($20.40) 6♠: (2 players, 2 are all-in)
River: ($20.40) K♦: (2 players, 2 are all-in)
Results: $20.40 pot ($1.02 rake)
Final Board: J♣: Q♦: 2♠: 6♠: K♦:
SB showed K♣: Q♣: and won $19.38 ($9.38 net)
Hero showed K♠: A♥: and lost (-$10 net)
____________________________________________________________
Pacific, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Hero (SB): $10 (100 bb)
BB: $17.01 (170.1 bb)
UTG: $12.13 (121.3 bb)
MP: $10.14 (101.4 bb)
CO: $10.43 (104.3 bb)
BTN: $10 (100 bb)
Preflop: Hero is SB with A♦: K♦:
4 folds, Hero raises to $0.35, BB raises to $1.05, Hero raises to $10 and is all-in, BB calls $8.95
Flop: ($20.00) 2♦: 3♥: 7♦: (2 players, 1 is all-in)
Turn: ($20.00) 9♥: (2 players, 1 is all-in)
River: ($20.00) Q♠: (2 players, 1 is all-in)
Results: $20.00 pot ($1 rake)
Final Board: 2♦: 3♥: 7♦: 9♥: Q♠:
Hero showed A♦: K♦: and lost (-$10.00 net)
BB showed Q♦: A♣: and won $19.00 ($9.00 net)
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Pacific, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
SB: $8.32 (83.2 bb)
BB: $10.28 (102.8 bb)
UTG: $10.47 (104.7 bb)
MP: $5 (50 bb)
Hero (CO): $10 (100 bb)
BTN: $10.45 (104.5 bb)
Preflop: Hero is CO with A♠: Q♠:
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.30, BTN folds, SB raises to $8.32 and is all-in, BB folds, Hero calls $8.02
Flop: ($16.74) J♦: 6♦: 7♠: (2 players, 1 is all-in)
Turn: ($16.74) 5♦: (2 players, 1 is all-in)
River: ($16.74) 6♥: (2 players, 1 is all-in)
Results: $16.74 pot ($0.83 rake)
Final Board: J♦: 6♦: 7♠: 5♦: 6♥:
SB showed K♣: 7♣: and won $15.91 ($7.59 net)
Hero showed A♠: Q♠: and lost (-$8.32 net)
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Pacific, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
SB: $26.36 (263.6 bb)
BB: $11.84 (118.4 bb)
MP: $20.15 (201.5 bb)
Hero (CO): $10 (100 bb)
BTN: $15.43 (154.3 bb)
Preflop: Hero is CO with A♦: K♥:
MP folds, Hero raises to $0.30, BTN folds, SB raises to $0.50, BB folds, Hero raises to $10 and is all-in, SB calls $9.50
Flop: ($20.10) 8♠: 5♦: J♥: (2 players, 1 is all-in)
Turn: ($20.10) 3♥: (2 players, 1 is all-in)
River: ($20.10) 4♠: (2 players, 1 is all-in)
Results: $20.10 pot ($1 rake)
Final Board: 8♠: 5♦: J♥: 3♥: 4♠:
SB showed T♥: 5♥: and won $19.10 ($9.10 net)
Hero showed A♦: K♥: and lost (-$10 net)
________________________________________________________________________
Pacific, $0.10/$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
SB: $23.89 (119.5 bb)
BB: $17.49 (87.5 bb)
UTG: $20.90 (104.5 bb)
MP: $20 (100 bb)
CO: $31.88 (159.4 bb)
Hero (BTN): $20 (100 bb)
Preflop: Hero is BTN with K♠: A♦:
UTG raises to $0.56, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.56, SB folds, BB raises to $1.92, UTG calls $1.36, Hero raises to $20 and is all-in, BB folds, UTG calls $18.08
Flop: ($42.02) 9♦: J♣: 7♠: (2 players, 1 is all-in)
Turn: ($42.02) 7♥: (2 players, 1 is all-in)
River: ($42.02) T♣: (2 players, 1 is all-in)
Results: $42.02 pot ($2.10 rake)
Final Board: 9♦: J♣: 7♠: 7♥: T♣:
UTG showed K♥: J♥: and won $39.92 ($19.92 net)
Hero showed K♠: A♦: and lost (-$20 net)
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Pacific, $0.10/$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
SB: $20 (100 bb)
Hero (BB): $39.43 (197.2 bb)
UTG: $69.62 (348.1 bb)
MP: $20 (100 bb)
CO: $25.52 (127.6 bb)
BTN: $33.57 (167.9 bb)
Preflop: Hero is BB with K♦: A♥:
4 folds, SB raises to $0.60, Hero raises to $2, SB raises to $4.20, Hero raises to $39.43 and is all-in, SB calls $15.80 and is all-in
Flop: ($40) 8♥: A♦: 3♣: (2 players, 2 are all-in)
Turn: ($40) J♠: (2 players, 2 are all-in)
River: ($40) 2♥: (2 players, 2 are all-in)
Results: $40 pot ($2.00 rake)
Final Board: 8♥: A♦: 3♣: J♠: 2♥:
SB showed J♥: A♠: and won $38 ($18.00 net)
Hero showed K♦: A♥: and lost (-$20 net)
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Pacific, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 2 Players
BB: $7.86 (78.6 bb)
Hero (SB): $10.51 (105.1 bb)
Preflop: Hero is SB with A♦: Q♠:
Hero raises to $0.35, BB raises to $1.40, Hero raises to $10.51 and is all-in, BB calls $6.46 and is all-in
Flop: ($15.72) 8♦: J♣: 4♣: (2 players, 2 are all-in)
Turn: ($15.72) 9♣: (2 players, 2 are all-in)
River: ($15.72) 7♣: (2 players, 2 are all-in)
Results: $15.72 pot ($0.78 rake)
Final Board: 8♦: J♣: 4♣: 9♣: 7♣:
BB showed Q♣: J♦: and won $14.94 ($7.08 net)
Hero showed A♦: Q♠: and won $0.00 (-$7.86 net)
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Pacific, $0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
SB: $6.01 (60.1 bb)
BB: $13.42 (134.2 bb)
UTG: $3.73 (37.3 bb)
MP: $17.06 (170.6 bb)
CO: $10 (100 bb)
Hero (BTN): $10 (100 bb)
Preflop: Hero is BTN with A♥: K♥:
UTG raises to $0.28, MP calls $0.28, CO folds, Hero raises to $1.36, SB raises to $6.01 and is all-in, 3 folds, Hero calls $4.65
Flop: ($12.68) 7♥: T♣: J♦: (2 players, 1 is all-in)
Turn: ($12.68) T♠: (2 players, 1 is all-in)
River: ($12.68) 2♦: (2 players, 1 is all-in)
Results: $12.68 pot ($0.63 rake)
Final Board: 7♥: T♣: J♦: T♠: 2♦:
SB showed T♥: A♣: and won $12.05 ($6.04 net)
Hero showed A♥: K♥: and lost (-$6.01 net)
And i have more hands... with JJ, QQ, KK and AA
I think the operative word here is occasionally, the problem is more often than not that ,these things happen continuously and are predictable, especially in tournaments. An example two hours into a tourny AA or KK is generally guaranteed to be beaten by something like J2 I can show you hundreds of such happenings and not only to myself (at certain sites)to other players also. Until nobody except myself can see my cards, (i,e, no site personnel) will I be certain that my cards are the luck of the draw.
Not sure what you want to prove with these kind of hands, but if I want to I can post beat beats of PokerStars as well. I think you get on every poker site bad beats and live as well. I expect you can post also a lot of hands you have won when you were 80/20 behind when the money was going in.
Cheers,
SDK1987
If you read with an open mind the meaning will be apparent. I will give you a pointer , that which occurs far more often than occasionally and as mentioned by someone else something happening far more often than the averages say it should. Bad beats as you say are normal this is obvious to anyone after having played a fair amount of hands , the nature and quantity thereof is being observed and disputed, because they defy the statistics quoted in many poker books.
Originally posted by SDK1987
I expect you can post also a lot of hands you have won when you were 80/20 behind when the money was going in.Cheers,
SDK1987
I have some hands when i won against better hands, but is nothing compare with what kind of bad beats i take (most against bad players), compared to the years 2010-2013, when fishes did not have so much "luck". And let's be serious, a decent player don"t go all-in with 54o or k3s etc, and if he goes, i am pretty sure they lose 98% of times.
The big difference online to live is players see this happening all the time and respond,I for one will always call a lowstack if i am bigstack with any 2 and win 90%,fixed. Re raise a lowerstack on turn to make my miracle card come on river,happens 75-80% fixed.If i knew someone had aa i would call every-time with any 2 and i bet online it would be a winning play.Online is rigged without doubt,its a machine and we are the small cogs.Yes you get a fairer game because of better players at high level but then 50-60% of the players are sponsored pro's,most 888 sponsored. Take your pick.
So in other words you are saying me and other profitable online poker players are part of the rigged deal? ♦
I am saying you have learned how the programming works,I guarantee you do things because you have learned quirks with the programming and not because of poker skills.
I have proof there is cheating.. or hacking on 888. I noticed once or twice but did not take the time to check.. this time I did .. and indeed there is either hacking or cheating. Either way it is totally discrediting the site. It is worse then what you have experienced.. Have a look.. It happened to me NOW few minutes ago.. I had flush.. he had trips.. he won.. There is no way the software would make that mistake.... NO WAY.. of course.. SO it is either cheating (888) or hacking.. I got the screenshot too..
#Game No : 947148800
** 888poker Hand History for Game 947148800 **
10 $/20 $ Blinds No Limit Holdem - ***
Tournament #114432452 0,08 $ + 0,02 $ - Table #1 10 Max (Real Money)
Seat 4 is the button
Total number of players : 10
Seat 1: RedBull162 ( 1 500 $ )
Seat 2: NekoMimiMode ( 1 500 $ )
Seat 3: SwaaaagG ( 1 490 $ )
Seat 4: CarevA55 ( 1 420 $ )
Seat 5: themaker0412 ( 1 480 $ )
Seat 6: Ernst5200 ( 1 500 $ )
Seat 7: hrupakov2013 ( 1 640 $ )
Seat 8: pokoa ( 1 470 $ )
Seat 9: stilsh ( 1 500 $ )
Seat 10: edurda77 ( 1 500 $ )
themaker0412 posts small blind [10 $]
Ernst5200 posts big blind [20 $]
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to pokoa [ 3carr., 7carr. ]
hrupakov2013 folds
pokoa calls [20 $]
stilsh folds
edurda77 folds
RedBull162 folds
NekoMimiMode folds
SwaaaagG raises [40 $]
CarevA55 calls [40 $]
themaker0412 folds
Ernst5200 folds
pokoa calls [20 $]
** Dealing flop ** [ Dp, Dcarr., 4c ]
pokoa checks
SwaaaagG checks
CarevA55 checks
** Dealing turn ** [ 4carr. ]
pokoa checks
SwaaaagG checks
CarevA55 checks
** Dealing river ** [ Tcarr. ]
pokoa bets [500 $]
SwaaaagG calls [500 $]
CarevA55 raises [1 380 $]
pokoa raises [930 $]
SwaaaagG calls [930 $]
** Summary **
SwaaaagG shows [ Tc, Vt ]
CarevA55 shows [ 9carr., Dc ]
pokoa shows [ 3carr., 7carr. ]
CarevA55 collected [ 4 290 $ ]
pokoa collected [ 100 $ ]
I made a screenshot too..
Sorry it is your mistake, he had FULL HOUSE ( D,D,D + 4,4) and you had only FLUSH.
Maybe that screenshot would help, because those Tcarr, Vt, Dp and so on don't make any sense to me.
Edit:
What Vampiir said above makes sense. If those D's represent card values, then the board was double paired and villain held one D (whatever it is) and had full house, not trips.
Originally posted by 888Anderson
Hello all
Just wanted to let you know that yes, we are reading this... and we care about the feedback we get from PokerStrategy. A LOT.I am saying this because I am the person that very often escalates things to management from these forums. You may not be aware of this, but recently, due to feedback from the German PokerStrategy forum, we have changed many and still looking into improving many more things in our software.
One of the recent adjustments was allowing new players to use 6-12 character passwords. We are looking to improve our security measures further obviously.
And no, 888 is not rigged
Variance is part of the game. Due to the fact that there are more casual players on 888poker, you may experience an increase in the number of players per hand and hands played @ certain tables.
=======================================Regarding withdrawal time frames:
http://www.888poker.com/banking/cashing-out/cash-out-payment-time-frames.htm
And I am copy pasting and forwarding this.
Nobody is saying 888 is rigged. We are just criticising their:
-inept verfication process
-incompetent security system (Lacks any sort of guarantee for hacking attacks and fails to recognise its own failures)
-useless and slow general customer service
Run Good
Anderson
Hi Mr. Anderson. Can you please explain how do you mean that 888 is not rigged? Are there any evidences about this? There are plenty of bots playing on 888 poker, many of them use collusion. 888 doesn't seem to care, what is that if not super rigged? Just look at the commercial sites that sell bots which can play on 888
pokerbot.com, http://www.bonusbots.com/, http://www.poker-bot.org/main/
Just wondering why on all 3 commercial sites, user can play on only few casinos, but always on 888 poker? If you think that those sites are scaming people actually not selling bots, give it a try, see if you will get banned on 888 poker. Keep in mind those are just commercial sites that sell bots, there are plenty of more bots that are not commercial, look at maxinmontreal.com, poker-ai.org and see how many people discuss about bots in 888 poker.
There are in this thread few guys that complain how they think that poker 888 is cheating because they get bad beats too often and other profitable players that play > NL50 make fun of them. Well, what chances do have micro players on 888 poker against bot rings that do collusion?
Advice for micro players: If you want to play online poker micro stakes, better play on pokerstars where you have lowest chances to play vs bots and collusion. They also have bots but much less due to very very good security so only the best bots can play there. On other sites you will have very low chances to win unless you are very good, but if you are so good you can play higher on pokerstars and make more money, complain less about being rigged.
Players that play stakes > NL25 are mostly safe from bot rings, because most of bots play micro stakes, still there are bots on > NL25 but much less. That is why players that play > NL25 are not complaining about being rigged.
Of course though,if you knew all about Gingerkids explanation,some might say it could become the sites biggest allie and be exploited to the full.Think about that tech boys.
Definitely Bots on 888 poker. One player I spotted as a suspect Bot was recorded as playing for over 31 hours. Another would fold to a min 3/bet when bb stealing, or fold to a min 3/bet on the flop.
I'm saying it's rigged. If it's not completely random by definition it's rigged, right?
That’s true, but it’s difficult to prove something is rigged.
You need millions of hands and even then, the variance is a factor.
Cheers,
SDK1987
Personally,imo,if something cannot be proven as being truly fair and uncorrupted in any way,that business should not be allowed to trade in the first place.
Originally posted by tilerman1
Personally,imo,if something cannot be proven as being truly fair and uncorrupted in any way,that business should not be allowed to trade in the first place.
Originally posted by SDK1987
That’s true, but it’s difficult to prove something is rigged.
You need millions of hands and even then, the variance is a factor.Cheers,
SDK1987
Why is it hard to get millions of hands from a poker site? That way they could prove that random number generator is correct in general. But they can't prove that they are not making just certain players win more often, because it is hard to get millions of hands for specific player. Or that they have super user who sees everyones whole cards. Or that many players use collusions, bots etc. The point is, it is pointless to discuss about if a poker site is rigged. We can't know that, we can just assume. All it matters is if you can make money on a poker site or not. If 888 cheats really, but you can make more money than on other sites, then who cares if they cheat.