AQ vs 3bet

It is indeed tough to play AQo OOP in 3 bet pots.

If you defend, keep in mind it only needs to loose less than 3bb on average (it's @-3bb if you R/F) to make it a winning play. Sometimes you won't be comfortable playing hands but that's how poker is. It's work, not fun.
Sometimes you will be dominated, but other times you're against AJ, KQ, 99 or A5s if it's in villains range, and folding vs. those preflop is a disaster.

As played I call this river. He should bet the flop with AK or TT so it's likely he has AQ or worse, ocassionally QJs, but you block the Q. AQ is the top of your range once you get to the river with this line and he has a) worse value bets, b) bluffs.

Hello. Thanks for your opinions. I appreciate that.

I dont understand what you mean by this:

Originally posted by NegPL
If you defend, keep in mind it only needs to loose less than 3bb on average (it's @-3bb if you R/F) to make it a winning play.

It means you loose 3BB folding, so you should loose less on average if you call.

Of course it depends on who is 3-b you. It might be fold, call, or 4-b. If we know nothing about the villain, I think folding is slightly better. The average 5NL player doesn't 3-b often enough and you'll often face stronger range than expected.

What about putting AQo in 4bet bluff range from UTG?

Calling is really ugly, because 3bet range vs. UTG is for value in most cases and frequently it will be QQ+ and AKs...

As played i would prefer to b/f the turn
Because while betting you always have foldequity and villain missed out conti bet
and same on the river just b/f

If we put him on QQ+ AKs, why do we need to have a 4-b bluff range at all? He is folding AK at most, or he might call with this as well. We don't need such fancy plays at NL5, keep that for when you go higher. Just keep it simple. There will be many easy opportunities to win money here.

Without info this is a clear fold. Vs this size. You still can call vs 9bb, but be careful with one pair. You will see very rare bet-bet-bet with bluff or weaker hand.
For the hand:
OTR fold. Most likely KK.

This is a 5 handed table, ranges are wider.

Originally posted by NegPL
This is a 5 handed table, ranges are wider.

What weaker you expect to see on this river? How often?

I was referring to preflop wide ranges, but AJ, A5, A3, A2, 99, 88, a random suited connector. Of course not with 100% frequency, but there are not many better hands either. btw. villains line was check / bet / bet.

villains line was check / bet / bet

Even worse.

AJ, A5, A3, A2, 99, 88, a random suited connector

Ok then. Let's say A2-A9s, AJo, KQo, 87s, 98s, 22-55, AK, JJ+ (imo too optimistic, you can't expect this as default)
How often you win at the SD? 26-27%? We have TPTK, but this is nothing here...He will bet on the flop as bluff. You can't expect many bluffs OTR with this line. "Weaker value hands", I can't see any. Maybe only AQ. Possible, but very unlikely. And this is not a "weaker"hand.
You can call vs
bet-check-bet
bet-bet

not vs
bet-bet-bet
check-bet-bet

I mean on this board. In this situation. I will call bet-bet-bet or check-bet-bet, let's say if UTG-MP OR, I call from BB and he bets 3 times, if he bets normal. I don't care, I'm Ok. But not here. U must respect the bets from NL5 player here. If it was NL16 or NL50, 6 max, then you can think about calling OTR.

This is only my opinion. Can be wrong. I have only maybe 40k hands on NL5 6 max. I don't want to argue.
However with this pot odds , can't be terrible mistake. We expect win rate 12/100 +. Can't be a huge leak.

First we have to be honest about the positions. We are on MP and villain is on CO.
AQo is a fine hand for call 3b. The problem obviously is to put him on a range here. I think that webeat only AJ here and lose to all other AT+ hands.... So we should fold.

Ok guys its kinda big discussion here and I got lost a bit ♦ . As default against his 3bet sizing it should be fold? I dont think I need to put 4bet bluffs in my range at nl5. So the decision is between fold and call. And fold is slightly better isnt it? I invested only 3BB and I save myself from a trouble spots postflop.

For the postflop. OTR its only 1/2bet but what weaker can he have? Only AJ comes to my mind. But I dont know what strong he can have either. AK, KK, TT would bet flop, QJ wouldnt 3bet preflop I think. But the fact that he doesnt have full stack (so I assume he is a recreational player) makes it even harder to put him on a range.

AK, KK, TT would bet flop, QJ wouldnt 3bet preflop I think

DON'T THINK! ♦ That's the problem. You play against yourself.
He check-back OTF. This is not good for us. His range is not weak. At all...When he decide to bet OTT and OTR. AJo is not there. Very rare maybe.
Call OTT, check-fold OTR....

Originally posted by insomnia666
Call OTT, check-fold OTR....

Ok thanks thats what I did and thats what I prefer.

What about the preflop?

I already said, vs this size, without info, this is an easy fold for me. NL5...You can make borderline call vs 9bb 3bet. What is your range in this situation? I mean for open raise.
Mate, I mean, if you are nit, there is no problem to over folding at micros. Without info. This is a good thing. If you are more LAG, then you must defend this.
Even call with АJs, KQs is better. ATs maybe equal. I hope you understand this. My English is not well obv.
Hands , like AQo, KQo, AJo are good vs wide range. Because sometime he will bet for thin value + bluffs. Or you can make a value bet. Vs weak line.

Preflop:
If hero would play on UTG this --> " I think I cant fold AQ to a 3bet but I dont like calling so much." is true. And that is why I usually 4bet bluff AQo when I face a 3bet.
But as nitrol pointed out we are 5 handed and our position is MP, the ranges should be wider. And that is why calling AQo would be quite standard for me. However we are playing against a short stacker so I assume he is recreational. And when recreational player uses a bigger sizing it is more often a strong hand.

Postflop I think it is close but I would still consider calling this since our top pair is quite under represented and villain bets just half pot. This can sometimes be a weaker value hand and I would still include some bluffs. We have to win this only 25% of the time to be break even. So he doesn't need to have that many bluffs/weaker value hands.

Originally posted by la55i
Preflop:
If hero would play on UTG this --> " I think I cant fold AQ to a 3bet but I dont like calling so much." is true. And that is why I usually 4bet bluff AQo when I face a 3bet.

Isn't it unnecessary to have a 4bet bluffing range at nl5?

Maybe. It depends. But I believe that the skill level has got higher and people start to 3bet bluff more, which means we should start defending more against 3bets and having a wider 4bet range is probably better than calling with a wider range, especially OOP.
I do think that 4bet bluffing is a good and profitable move at least in some situations, but beginners are often advised not to do that very often because it could get them in a bad situation.

I actually just told one of my coachees to expand his 4bet range a little and after a while he told me that there are a few things he absolutely loves in his new game plan and one of them was having a 4bet bluff range. He said it is amazing how well it works. And he is playing NL2&NL5.

Originally posted by insomnia666
What is your range in this situation? I mean for open raise.

As default I play according to the ranges that Confidant91 shared with us in his NL beginner's course.
From UTG that is 55+, KQ+, ATo+, and I widened it up a bit and started opening A2s+