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SH Zoom QJs, MP vs CO, TP vs River Cbet

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Alleen86
Joined: 27.05.2010

Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $48.45 (96.9 bb)
BB: $54.41 (108.8 bb)
UTG: $139.25 (278.5 bb)
Hero (MP): $63.07 (126.1 bb)
CO: $58.77 (117.5 bb)
BTN: $97.25 (194.5 bb)

Preflop: Hero is MP with Q♥: J♥:
UTG folds, Hero raises to $1.50, CO raises to $4.50, 3 folds, Hero calls $3

Flop: ($9.75) 5♠: 5♦: 8♥: (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $3.06, Hero calls $3.06

Turn: ($15.87) J♣: (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $7.50, Hero calls $7.50

River: ($30.87) T♦: (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $19.75, Hero???

Preflop: CO plays 26/20 in 88 hands, 3betting 10 in the sample size (20 vs Hero). Decided to defend. He might be a reg.

Flop: He bets really small, so I believe I have to call with overs and backdoors. I'm not sure would he bet overpairs with that sizing, but I believe that most would bet bigger.

Turn: Check/call is the best I can do there, I believe.

River: Now I think he either has nuts, like A5s or TT, or he has a bluff like AK-AJ. Since not all players will 3bet TT preflop and most of them will cbet A5s higher OTF, probably I have enough equity to call.


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12 replies
nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

This may be a perfect example how a bad preflop decision leads to big loss postflop... :)


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sdf256
Joined: 21.07.2016

I'm folding preflop as well.


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MatoStar
Joined: 22.07.2017

I have also QJs in 3bet calling range and it is not bottom of my range. If we would fold QJs against 3bet preflop, then what will we call?


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

What is the "standard" 3b range for CO vs MP?


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Varune
Joined: 24.04.2009

Without reads it's fine to fold this pre, it's very hard to play this optimally OOP.

Postflop: His flopsizing is perfect, you will have a very hard time defending your minimal defence frequency vs this sizing.
Also he can play near perfect here, because you don't have QQ+ in your range, so he can just barrel off if he wants, or check ace highs etc.

OTR you're seeing ghosts, all of sudden he only has TT and A5 for value?, he still has TJ, AJ QQ+ aswell.

Perfect example how A marginal preflop call leads to shitty postflop spots.


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sdf256
Joined: 21.07.2016

Originally posted by MatoStar
I have also QJs in 3bet calling range and it is not bottom of my range. If we would fold QJs against 3bet preflop, then what will we call?

We can call bunch of suited Aces, maybe KQs(not sure about that), AQ, pocket pairs , Im calling QQ as well.


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MatoStar
Joined: 22.07.2017

Originally posted by sdf256

Originally posted by MatoStar
I have also QJs in 3bet calling range and it is not bottom of my range. If we would fold QJs against 3bet preflop, then what will we call?

We can call bunch of suited Aces, maybe KQs(not sure about that), AQ, pocket pairs , Im calling QQ as well.

Why do you prefer QQ just call here? Light 4bet (2.25x)and fold to 5bet shove is fine option imo. On the boards like Axx and Kxx it will be hard to defend with QQ.


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Varune
Joined: 24.04.2009

Originally posted by MatoStar

Originally posted by sdf256

Originally posted by MatoStar
I have also QJs in 3bet calling range and it is not bottom of my range. If we would fold QJs against 3bet preflop, then what will we call?

We can call bunch of suited Aces, maybe KQs(not sure about that), AQ, pocket pairs , Im calling QQ as well.

Why do you prefer QQ just call here? Light 4bet (2.25x)and fold to 5bet shove is fine option imo. On the boards like Axx and Kxx it will be hard to defend with QQ.

4bet/folding would be quite bad, that would mean you only stack off KK+ and i guess AK after you 4bet. Giving you an ultrahigh foldto5bet.

Calling the 3bet with QQ isn't meant to strengthen our range on Kxx/Axx, so don't really care about it being hard to defend on those textures. If you call a 3bet with QQ it's meant to strenghten our range on all other boardtextures. For example the low paired board shown in this hand, having QQ here would be excellent imo.


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MatoStar
Joined: 22.07.2017

Originally posted by Varune

Originally posted by MatoStar

Originally posted by sdf256

Originally posted by MatoStar
I have also QJs in 3bet calling range and it is not bottom of my range. If we would fold QJs against 3bet preflop, then what will we call?

We can call bunch of suited Aces, maybe KQs(not sure about that), AQ, pocket pairs , Im calling QQ as well.

Why do you prefer QQ just call here? Light 4bet (2.25x)and fold to 5bet shove is fine option imo. On the boards like Axx and Kxx it will be hard to defend with QQ.

4bet/folding would be quite bad, that would mean you only stack off KK+ and i guess AK after you 4bet. Giving you an ultrahigh foldto5bet.

Calling the 3bet with QQ isn't meant to strengthen our range on Kxx/Axx, so don't really care about it being hard to defend on those textures. If you call a 3bet with QQ it's meant to strenghten our range on all other boardtextures. For example the low paired board shown in this hand, having QQ here would be excellent imo.

I mean just fold to 5bet shove, because 5bet shoving range is definitely from QQ+,AKo,AKs and if we have QQ, I am not sure if we have enough equity to call.
Yeah, you are right, 3bet call QQ can be reasonable too. But then we 3bet call also AK,KK,AA? Maybe can be fine mixed it, sometimes call, sometimes 4bet.


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Varune
Joined: 24.04.2009

Originally posted by MatoStar

Originally posted by Varune

Originally posted by MatoStar

Originally posted by sdf256

Originally posted by MatoStar
I have also QJs in 3bet calling range and it is not bottom of my range. If we would fold QJs against 3bet preflop, then what will we call?

We can call bunch of suited Aces, maybe KQs(not sure about that), AQ, pocket pairs , Im calling QQ as well.

Why do you prefer QQ just call here? Light 4bet (2.25x)and fold to 5bet shove is fine option imo. On the boards like Axx and Kxx it will be hard to defend with QQ.

4bet/folding would be quite bad, that would mean you only stack off KK+ and i guess AK after you 4bet. Giving you an ultrahigh foldto5bet.

Calling the 3bet with QQ isn't meant to strengthen our range on Kxx/Axx, so don't really care about it being hard to defend on those textures. If you call a 3bet with QQ it's meant to strenghten our range on all other boardtextures. For example the low paired board shown in this hand, having QQ here would be excellent imo.

I mean just fold to 5bet shove, because 5bet shoving range is definitely from QQ+,AKo,AKs and if we have QQ, I am not sure if we have enough equity to call.
Yeah, you are right, 3bet call QQ can be reasonable too. But then we 3bet call also AK,KK,AA? Maybe can be fine mixed it, sometimes call, sometimes 4bet.

You're probably priced in to call the shove after you 4bet with QQ, that makes it bad and very exploitable.

I use a mixed strategy myself with these hands, really player dependent.


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Coach
LemOn36
Joined: 07.02.2009

Hah I used to make this flop mistake all the time , oh the flashbacks
Then I got a coach and from many "what the fuck are you doing calling these" I learned to never check call shitty dominater backdoors and overs oop

Just think a little further on possible turn cards vs his range and your action on river when turn goes check/check when you miss and you'll come to very easy fold conclusion


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Coach
LemOn36
Joined: 07.02.2009

And if you 4bet 2.25XQQ you are definitely folding in these positions without dynamic to a straight up jam


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