poker pro

I'm not completely sure how many hands professional players play on average per month, but I would assume 100k/month is reasonable.

I live in Finland and everything is a bit expensive here compared to some other countries. If we assume I would continue living here, I would want at least 1500$+rakeback/month. That is the minimum I would want at the beginning, but I wouldn't want to do that for a long time. I would have to be able to make a lot more at some point.

That 1500$ per month is achievable at NL25 with 6bb/100 winrate, which I think is reasonable. Being a full-time player I would like to go with a more conservative BRM --> I would like to have at least 50 buy-ins.

Depends what country you live in, minimum required money for you to live on and your bankroll and skill set.
Please give more info to get more info.

Originally posted by la55i
I'm not completely sure how many hands professional players play on average per month, but I would assume 100k/month is reasonable.

I live in Finland and everything is a bit expensive here compared to some other countries. If we assume I would continue living here, I would want at least 1500$+rakeback/month. That is the minimum I would want at the beginning, but I wouldn't want to do that for a long time. I would have to be able to make a lot more at some point.

That 1500$ per month is achievable at NL25 with 6bb/100 winrate, which I think is reasonable. Being a full-time player I would like to go with a more conservative BRM --> I would like to have at least 50 buy-ins.

great information thx.

just 2 following questions:
1: as u said 6bb's/100 is reasonable at NL25. but what would be reasonable results when you progress to higher stakes?
2: what is a usual amount of hands you can reach each hour?

Originally posted by IvicaIliev77
Depends what country you live in, minimum required money for you to live on and your bankroll and skill set.
Please give more info to get more info.

true.
i live in the netherlands, living is doable for about 900 euro's each month. and to eventually improve to better stakes and better life and less life variance. something about 1100 euro's each month would be more reasonable. and BRM i would assume like la55i said, something about 50BI's. as for skill set, can't really explain this one since it's too specalutive and can improve when the time comes i could go pro.

Maybe just nitpicking but I disagree a little bit with your BRM agreement. If you a poker pro more or less everything is your bankroll. This money has to be enough to live for a couple of month - better a year+ and cushion a downswing. You can't really afford to move down or else you don't earn enough. The initial premise was that you are a winning player on that stake. If we are talking about when to move up to NL50 then it makes sense to think about something like BRM.

But I would rather add something like a cost of capital in addition to your costs of living.

cost of living
+amortisation (especially poker gear like upgrading your computer)
+unforeseen events (doctor or accidents)
+savings
+cost of capital (when worse come to worse)
+education (coaching or maybe even to have enough time off to self study)
= recurring cash outs

Step 1. Put in that volume on NL25 no matter what.
Step 2. Cash out those costs
Step 3. If there is a surplus. Still do Step 1 - it's no matter what for a reason and in addition to that try to move up.

Just my thoughts.

Rhodriguez has a good point.

just 2 following questions:
1: as u said 6bb's/100 is reasonable at NL25. but what would be reasonable results when you progress to higher stakes?
2: what is a usual amount of hands you can reach each hour?

Depends how high. I have to say that I'm not 100% sure of the average winrates good players get on each stake, but I would throw a guess that is could be 4-5bb/100 give or take some big blinds
And how many hands/hour depends on how many tabes you feel comfortable playing. Some play more, some play less. 1k hands per hour is achievable. That takes only 4 zoom tables. How much your winrate starts to decrease when you try to put even more volume, that I don't know. Would higher volume still give you a better hourly rate, probably depends on what site you are playing on and what your rakeback% is.

thx 4 the information so far

Unless you live off playing tournaments on a regular basis, the true source of professional poker income is in cash games. The idea is to beat the game fairly and squarely, one big hand at a time. You don't rush things. You wait for that big hand or play at the right moment and move strong to win enormously

ty 4 the information

I would suggest at least 100 buy-ins for your bankroll. This will force you to be more patient which is crucial skill for good poker player.

ty 4 the information.

would this include cashgames as well, or only with tourneys?

I guess he mainly meant cash since for tournaments you need way more buy-ins. For regular structure with a lot of people (big tournament series on PS; >1000) you need at least 200+ buy ins imo and probably even more when keeping the things Rhodriguez mentioned in mind.

ty 4 the information

Originally posted by Shuffle93
I guess he mainly meant cash since for tournaments you need way more buy-ins. For regular structure with a lot of people (big tournament series on PS; >1000) you need at least 200+ buy ins imo and probably even more when keeping the things Rhodriguez mentioned in mind.

Yes it was meant for cash games.

I use to play a lot of zoom 4 tables, variance is high, if you play for fun, you can use like 25-50bi. As a pro i would use 100+bi rule.

ty 4 the information.

zoom seems like fun 2 me as well as it's gaining much quicker profits, and all things you miss are the crappy hands you aren't going to play anyway. which make me think of 2 another questions:
which sites do have such a thing?
and which is best and why?
i already know about stars, 888 (snap) and party (fastforward)

I think I had like $500-1k BR when I went pro
It really depends on your winrate/style/variance
I was crushing NL16 with no losing months and just moved to Czech Republic to have lower expenses and give poker a shot, YOLO! ♦

(rents in the town I moved to were like $150 though, so I could live off $600)

Going pro is hard decision actually and you must ask yourself a few things before considering going pro

About Poker:
1) What game you will be playing? Does the traffic on your site is enough? the variance is high? Whats you winrate? How many volume you can put in?
About Money:
2) What will be your bankroll management? (As a pro you can't think about moving down in case of downswings) Do you have any savings just in case you hit some great downswing for a month? Are you able to manage your winnings wisely?
About Mental Game:
3) How good is your A-Game? For how long you can sustain your A-Game? Is your C-Game enough to beat the level?How you deal with tilt?
About Your Career:
4) What stakes you will be playing?Is it enough to live with it and spare some money? How do you will move up? How much you will invest in coachings? How do you intend to improve your game?
About your health:
5) How many days/week you will workout? What kind of food you will eat? Is your setup enough to support your grind? (good and comfortable chair, mouse/gamepad, screen display , etc..)

And most important: Are you doing this for the money or for the dream?

I think after answering thoses questions you will get a better understanding about when going pro is the right decision. I'm not a pro (yet) but i'm planning everything to be able to go pro by the end of this month or the next!
Being a pro means managing your resources efficiently IMO

thanks for all the information.

Originally posted by LemOn36
I think I had like $500-1k BR when I went pro

wow ok, did it actually hold long term?

Originally posted by Vherrero
Going pro is hard decision actually and you must ask yourself a few things before considering going pro

About Poker:
1) What game you will be playing? Does the traffic on your site is enough? the variance is high? Whats you winrate? How many volume you can put in?
About Money:
2) What will be your bankroll management? (As a pro you can't think about moving down in case of downswings) Do you have any savings just in case you hit some great downswing for a month? Are you able to manage your winnings wisely?
About Mental Game:
3) How good is your A-Game? For how long you can sustain your A-Game? Is your C-Game enough to beat the level?How you deal with tilt?
About Your Career:
4) What stakes you will be playing?Is it enough to live with it and spare some money? How do you will move up? How much you will invest in coachings? How do you intend to improve your game?
About your health:
5) How many days/week you will workout? What kind of food you will eat? Is your setup enough to support your grind? (good and comfortable chair, mouse/gamepad, screen display , etc..)

And most important: Are you doing this for the money or for the dream?

nice checklist

Originally posted by Vherrero
I'm not a pro (yet) but i'm planning everything to be able to go pro by the end of this month or the next!

very nice! good luck with that

Yeah it held longterm, at Micros I went years with having pretty much no losing months, it wasn't that much of a gamble