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AA overpair vs big bet on river

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santiqwerty
Joined: 25.10.2008

Pacific, $0.02/$0.05 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

SB: $5 (100 bb)
Hero (BB): $5.36 (107.2 bb)
MP: $5 (100 bb)
CO: $8.45 (169 bb)
BTN: $11.92 (238.4 bb)

Preflop: Hero is BB with A♦: A♣:
3 folds, SB raises to $0.15, Hero raises to $0.25, SB calls $0.10

Flop: ($0.50) Q♠: 3♣: 4♦: (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.33, SB calls $0.33

Turn: ($1.16) Q♥: (2 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.77, SB calls $0.77

River: ($2.70) 8♥: (2 players)
SB bets $2, Hero calls $2

Spoiler

Results: $6.70 pot ($0.33 rake)
Final Board: Q♠: 3♣: 4♦: Q♥: 8♥:
SB showed Q♦: 6♦: and won $6.37 ($3.02 net)
Hero showed A♦: A♣: and lost (-$3.35 net)


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9 replies
marsa08
Joined: 30.01.2014

I think that you cloud xb turn even sometimes and call or bet river when the Q pairs. Anyways hard to get value for 3streets IP when board runs like this.

As played, big river donks are usually strong in micros so I think that you can consider laying it down. And preflop 3bet to bigger size so he can't call you with stuff like Q6dd.


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Netgames999
Joined: 12.11.2006

Preflop bigger. Around $0.40 to $0.50 is fine.
Flop smaller. If SB doesn't have Qx, it's hard for him to call. It gets even hard if you bet bigger. Same logic on the turn. If you bet big in these spots, you push out everything except for Qx, 44 and 33. Think about it. What kind of hands pay you of on flop and turn?


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Shurikk
Joined: 21.05.2014

And preflop 3bet to bigger size so he can't call you with stuff like Q6dd.

Exactly! on these limits - 3x is good - if opponent likes his hand - he'll play it no matter of your sizing...

I think that you cloud xb turn

Actually, we can xb flop and bet turn-river. Because on that flop (Xxx, rainbow) opponents will often fold to our bet and will continue only with Qx, few middle-pairs and sets, so we won't get much value - he'll just fold almost all his range.. But if we xb flop - he can get some pair or flush draw.. we show a weakness by x flop so opponent sometimes will try to bluffing few streets with worse hand...

As played, big river donks are usually strong in micros so I think that you can consider laying it down.

River: Bank is 2.70, opponent bets 2.0.. We need 30 % equity to breakeven... Even if we put all Qxs in the opponent range (and it is unlikely in real sit.) and only few bluffs (2 combos of 56s, one JJ and few 99-TT) we have enough equity for calling river


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Sunrise1912
Joined: 24.11.2009

3bet bigger pre. 50c is ok.

On this flop i would cbet like 100%. Mb check KQ/QJ/QT/JJ/TT from my 3bet range, however, with AA just bet it. You will get called by Qx and many pockets 88-JJ. If the turn bricks i would bet again and shove river. You want to get his full stack if he has Qx. What Shurikk says to " xb flop and bet turn-river" is losing us money.

Turn: the Q pairs and i dont think you ever have a value bet here. No worse will call, no better folds and you no longer have 3 streets of value here. Check behind turn and decide the river. Mb im calling there as they might bluff some random floats or even bet for value lower pockets thinking we have AK.

However, the way you played, insta fold river. People never bluff in these spots, especially in 3bet pots and with this sizing


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marsa08
Joined: 30.01.2014

Originally posted by Shurikk

River: Bank is 2.70, opponent bets 2.0.. We need 30 % equity to breakeven... Even if we put all Qxs in the opponent range (and it is unlikely in real sit.) and only few bluffs (2 combos of 56s, one JJ and few 99-TT) we have enough equity for calling river

In my opinion that range is not correct. I think that he will not donk bet bluff JJ-99 as they have sd value. The 56 seems ok as a bluff. Against suited Q6+ and KQo, AQo and all 56s as a bluff we have 14% equity. It is not enough to make the call.


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la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

Everything is pretty much already said.

Absolutely 3bet bigger.
OTF and OTT there was many different lines suggested and I think those are ok. If you bet this super dry board in a 3bet pot, I would go smaller than half pot.
OTR absolutely a fold as played. You decided to bet big twice on this board which made sure villain can only continue with a strong range. Then he uses a line call-call-donk that is most of the time for value. On this board there are not many missed draws that could bluff like this so it makes his hand look even more strong.
I can guess without looking at the spoiler that villain had a Qx.

About Shurikk's range, I do agree with marsa that it might not be so realistic. I would take 99 and TT out. And where are 33 and 44? On this board he doesn't need protection and since we did 3bet pre and continue betting postflop why wouldn't he let us barrel. Those would be 6 more combos that beat us.


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marsa08
Joined: 30.01.2014

Yes indeed we forgot 44 and 33 too, I think that this is now realistic range for villain. 10% equity.

-Just trying to keep the converstation open.


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la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

That looks quite ok. We can tune that a bit.

Because the 3bet is so ridiculously small I think he could call with QTo also. That is 6 more Qx combos.
To be fair, let's not add any of Q2s-Q5s but I think those could be in his range also. Just because it is a suited Q and if villain just opens those hands pre he probably shouldn't give up those vs a minarise.
33 and 44 could maybe raise at some point, so let's just take half of the combos from those. Let's erase 33 completely for example.
Let's also say he could sometimes not 4bet with KK and add 3 out of 6 KK combos that we still beat?
Also, maybe villain can do this with A2o and A2s (8 combos more that we beat) because he had a gutshot and one overcard and missed.

44,KdKh,KdKs,KdKc,A2s,KQs,Q6s+,65s,AQo,A2o,KQo,QTo+

And now we got almost 28% equity which still is not enough. And I think we were generous when we assigned that range.


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Shurikk
Joined: 21.05.2014

Yap, you are right... He wouldn't donk TT-JJ OTR


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