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3bet AQ + 3 bet flop too much aggression ?

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Sczcepanik
Joined: 17.01.2009

I was thinking UTG to pay a 3bet out of position, he could be bluffing a scared (AK) / have AQ / QK... would he do it with JJ ?

I don't see AA-KK doing it, they would have come 4bet pre-flop most of the times.
If they had a set I would get busted on later streets so I go for it on flop...

What normally happen when people check-raise your 3betted flop Cbet ?

PokerStars - $0.02 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 106 BB
SB: 112 BB
BB: 84.5 BB
UTG: 105 BB
MP: 92 BB
Hero (CO): 91 BB

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A♦ Q♦

UTG raises to 3 BB, fold, Hero raises to 9 BB, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls 6 BB

Flop: (19.5 BB, 2 players) 5♣ Q♠ T♥
UTG checks, Hero bets 12.5 BB, UTG raises to 31 BB, Hero raises to 69.5 BB, fold

Hero wins 78.5 BB


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7 replies
Netgames999
Joined: 12.11.2006

Always have 100bb!
3bet preflop is OK. You could also just call. Depending on the other players involved.
Betting the flop seems normal. If he raises I would just call. You never get calls from worst hands and you never fold out better hands too.
All you do is getting him to fold his bluffs and call his sets/overpairs.
What is the point of shoving the flop?


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Sunrise1912
Joined: 24.11.2009

First: reload to 100BB. Imagine that you get the stacks in the middle in this situation. You would win 91BB + 91BB = 182BB. If you had a full stack you would have won 200BB instead (not accounting rake obviously).

On the hand.

I would say villians range is something like that :

55/TT/QQ/KQ/AQ/QJ/JJ/KJ/AK/AJ + some random spazz (like 99) which is common for this limit.

I dont think he has AA/kk here like ever. Even the most passive fish learnt to 4bet those.

The questions is:

What part of this range does he raise with ?

I would immediately discount JJ/KQ/JQ as when i used to play NL2 people would just call these:

So, this leaves the hands that crush you: 55/TT/QQ (just 1 combo), the AQ split and the draws + spew.

Now the next question:

Will he fold the draws to a push ? We can't know this in game but watching at the result this is most probably what happened here. This means that by re-raising the flop you will get called by the part of his range that crushes you and the one that you split with.

Sadly, obviously against this opponent, the most +EV move is to call him down and not to reraise the flop as he has more draws + spew rather than made hands in this spot. He might also try to bluff you out from an AK type of a hand. Yes, sometimes you will lose as they would hit the magic turn gutshot, but the rest of the situations you will get his full stack and be shown something like KJ


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Sczcepanik
Joined: 17.01.2009

I use auto top-up for 90% (on 90BB it would top-up to 100, oddly I had 91 so it didn't complete from last hand).

If he has draws / AQ splitting, by re-raising I'm putting more money in the pot while I'm ahead (65~69% equity) against his whole range JJ-TT-55-AT-QJs-KTs+KJ-KQ/AQ.

By the way, I intentionally didn't "all in". I just made his draws costly enough.

If he hit a set, no problem, and if he had AQ I won 40BB of his stack instead of being passive and entering some complicated turn/river.


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Netgames999
Joined: 12.11.2006

Originally posted by Sczcepanik

By the way, I intentionally didn't "all in". I just made his draws costly enough....

But you didn't :thinking: Calling 39bb in a pot that is already 130bb big is not costly at all.

JJ-TT-55-AT-QJs-KTs+KJ-KQ/AQ.

Q♠:T♥:5♣: - Why would you think that anything other than TT, 55, maybe AQ and maybe semibluff KJ x/raises here. You are making it yourself way to easy if you just assume that he x/raises all these hands.


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Sczcepanik
Joined: 17.01.2009

Because in such a board, wouldn't TT - 55 probably set a trap and just call ?
So which hands he check-raise flop? JK - AQ, QJ ? QK ?

And considering I don't re-raise...
A) Why call the flop X/R if folding a bet turn ?
B) If call the flop / call turn isn't worse ?
C) Fold flop ? So why 3bet AQ preflop ? By this logic my VPIP/PRF would go to the moon if I cold call AJ-AQ preflop raises.

Thanks for all the replies.
(I'm asking this, not about NL2, but I would do the same on other limits, so I wonder what is the right move and of course relearning the game at the lowest limit for now)


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Tomaloc
Joined: 17.01.2011

you should give some set combos, never assume they "always" take a certain line with x holding.
now, what is he check/raising with? it's good to try to guess which kind of player he is from any information you can. if it's a reg, check/raising with any made hand less than AQ is insane, so a bit of an optimistic guess is AQ, QT, some sets, some gutshots and some OESD.
it gets bad very quickly as we start discounting the draws, and we don't want to help the opponent play their range perfectly (by calling better and folding worse). if you want to stack off with this, it feels better to just call and shove any non-broadway turn.


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pokerboy198229
Joined: 20.08.2011

Yeah i would just call to let him spazz more. This way you earning more money.


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