Skip to forum
Notifications
Clear all

[NL 16]is my line so terrible?

9 Posts
5 Users
3 Reactions
760 Views
diabloykiss
Joined: 19.04.2018

Deserved own I guess. Never check raising again this hands without nut flush. Just check calling and playing safe :/

PokerStars - $0.16 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

SB: 100 BB (VPIP: 21.30, PFR: 15.02, 3Bet Preflop: 7.65, Hands: 448)
BB: 243.5 BB (VPIP: 22.49, PFR: 15.98, 3Bet Preflop: 6.35, Hands: 173)
UTG: 101.88 BB (VPIP: 18.62, PFR: 13.30, 3Bet Preflop: 4.05, Hands: 193)
Hero (MP): 200.06 BB
CO: 221.31 BB (VPIP: 85.57, PFR: 11.34, 3Bet Preflop: 10.17, Hands: 99)
BTN: 100 BB (VPIP: 25.61, PFR: 17.17, 3Bet Preflop: 6.43, Hands: 377)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has K♦ Q♦

fold, Hero raises to 2.5 BB, fold, BTN calls 2.5 BB, SB calls 2 BB, fold

Flop: (8.5 BB, 3 players) 7♥ 5♦ 9♦
SB checks, Hero checks, BTN bets 5.44 BB, fold, Hero raises to 20.25 BB, BTN calls 14.81 BB

Turn: (49 BB, 2 players) 2♦
Hero bets 15.94 BB, BTN raises to 40.5 BB, Hero raises to 118.88 BB, BTN calls 36.75 BB and is all-in

River: (203.5 BB, 2 players) J♣
Players agreed to run it twice.

River #2: (203.5 BB, 2 players) 7♦

Spoiler

Hero shows K♦ Q♦ (Flush, King High)
Board #1 (Pre 39%, Flop 20%, Turn 0%)
(Flush, King High)
Board #2 (Pre 39%, Flop 20%, Turn 0%)

BTN shows A♦ T♦ (Flush, Ace High)
Board #1 (Pre 61%, Flop 80%, Turn 100%)
(Flush, Ace High)
Board #2 (Pre 61%, Flop 80%, Turn 100%)

BTN wins 97.19 BB
BTN wins 97.13 BB


Reply
Quote
8 replies
MyFloXyBabY
Joined: 15.02.2010

Because you think there is a magic line that'd make you avoid being stacked by the nut flush here ?
I quite like that x/r in fact. And I certainly prefer NOT having the nutted FD to do so.


Reply
Quote
zetozinho
Joined: 18.06.2017

That's a dangerous flop board. One thing I'm studying at the moment is check-raising ranges OTF after being the pre flop agressor.
If you could elaborate your thought Floxy about the check-raise OTF I'd really appreciate that. I know we are OOP and it makes it easy for us to fold against a 3bet, besides narrowing his range a lot, but I'd like to get deeper on this topic.
About the turn, nothing you could do from the moment you hit your hand.


Reply
Quote
ImABadReg
Joined: 27.11.2018

Dear Diabloykiss,

Personally, I think you played the hand preflop perfectly fine.
The check on the flop is great, because this range is pretty good for the button (55, 77, 99 and many strong draws). When he bets, its really nice to check-raise him with nutted hands and really strong draws like a FD with two overs.
I also like the bet on the turn.
The moment villain raises on the turn he's basically saying he has a flush, or the ace of diamonds as a bluff.
He's gonna call both hands when you jam, cause he is priced in, even with the Ad.
So 3-bet jamming is never a bad play.

Realize this:

Sometimes in poker, you're just gonna get stacked.
Don't let the outcome bias question the way you played this hand.
Almost always he's gonna be losing in this spot with a lower flush, and you are getting all the chips.


Reply
Quote
diabloykiss
Joined: 19.04.2018

need more info on prefering NOT having the nut flush to raise on these spots. Are u raising a lower FD as JTs for example?

if villain shoves my raise flop should I fold?

Your tips are always awesome im breezing through the limits


Reply
Quote
ImABadReg
Joined: 27.11.2018

It is nice to have some draws that raise and some that call on the flop, so your opponent can't put you on specific hands.
The nut flush draw still has some showdown value, so if it checks through on the turn & river, you might win.
You can better call the draws hands that have the most showdown value (nut flush draw/pair + flush draw), and raise the ones with less showdown value/are combodraws on the flop.
KQ suited is good to raise here since it is a combo draw.
I don't think raising AdKd here is too bad, because your draw is really strong.


Reply
Quote
ImABadReg
Joined: 27.11.2018

If villain shoves on the flop, he is putting 92,06BB into a pot of 34,19BB.
That means you are getting 1.37:1 so you need 42,19% equity to call
It is likely that non-board pairing flush outs will get you all the chips, so that is 8 outs.
Against his value range you have roughly 32% equity
However, against his bluffing range you have more equity since you crush some weaker draws.
The downside of having a draw here, it that it makes it less likely he has a draw himself.
This means that he's gonna have more value 3-bets here then bluffs.
If he 3-bet jams with the nut flush draw you are in a bad spot as well and it is more likely that he james with the NFD than he is with other draws.

Conclusion: this should be a crystal clear fold on the flop when villain jams


Reply
Quote
MyFloXyBabY
Joined: 15.02.2010

@zeto : I like that x/r because it's a texture we're gonna have to check on a lot OOP so we want to defend our checks. Besides I'd expect most lowstakes regs to autobet on a check here so it's a good exploitative move. I'd probably x/r with all my sets here and all, knowing that the field shouldn't resist stabbing with FD (so few risks of being outdrawn), GS, pair + draws, PP, etc.
You're probably denying equity more efficiently (while being more assured of realizing yours) by going for a flop x/r and a turn barrel than by cbetting and double barreling, allowing him to raise you on the flop or worse on the turn. You wouldn't like that very much.

@diabloy : our bad reg friend already mentioned some of the reasons why the nut FD is preferably a call (although AKs is way different that A4s as he said). Basically it feels a little too strong of a hand to semi-bluff with and slightly not strong enough of a hand to value raise with so it may be better to maintain its SDV in small pots (whereas lower FD have way less SDV and thus nothing to lose to be turned into bluffs).
People will easily expect you to be agressive with it so it benefits you to put it in another range and surprise them. The nut FD is the kind of combo that doesn't need to build the pot early as it can always value raise later on, whereas with non nut made flushes raising on the river is always tricky as you might value cut yourself too much against the higher ones.

Glad to hear someone is breezing through the stakes at least as I've certainly not been this month.


Reply
Quote
OrigamiPoker
Joined: 27.10.2018

I would just cbet here and barrel any turn. If you want to balance use some made hands like Set's imo.


Reply
Quote