[Closed] Can playing stoned be +EV?

Originally posted by nafar84
Fallacy #1: false cause. Just because the girl is already fucked up doesn't mean weed is the cause.

When you write that in a forum it's true, but when you meet her IRL it's obvious that the drugs made her so.

Originally posted by nafar84
I specifically said that substances like caffeine and nicotine are more harmful than weed.

I never said that, but I'm going to reply to this. I don't know that much of caffeine and I don't drink coffee. Sometimes I drink red bull or take a soda. But regarding nicotine: I believe it's a complete different danger. Weed messes up your mind. Depending on how much you use this can easily be done in around one decade. Imagine you're 14 when you heavily start using weed. When you're 24 you're completely messed up and you're life is over (I guarantee you that's gonna happen unless you win the lottery so that you're able to smoke for some more years). You may live for another 60/70/80 years, but you'll life will be shit from this moment. You can overdose & die from caffeine, but you can only smoke yourself to sleep from weed. I don't know that much about nicotine either, but as far as I know it gets you addicted to the cigarettes and reduces you're resistance against cancer and decreases insulin secretion. Other substances in cigarettes are probably far more dangerous. Basically it makes you live less long, but it doesn't change quality of life. Correct me if I'm wrong. If I would have to choose between a bullet, a cigarette and a litre of soda, I would have chosen the soda.

Originally posted by nafar84
Too much of anything is potentially harmful...

Agreed.

Originally posted by nafar84
...all I'm saying is that there is absolutely no reason why it should be considered "illegal" and a "drug" if the other legal substances I mentioned are not treated as such.

However growing, trading and blowing weed is illegal in my country, it's tolerated within certain limits. I don't have any problems with that. Smoking has recently been forbidden in public places and I'm very happy with that. Smoking cigarettes in a coffee shop is forbidden, which, in my opinion, is very strange.

Originally posted by nafar84
As with pretty much anything, the responsibility lies with the consumers. A fully responsible & aware person who consumes alcohol is much less likely to become an alcoholic than another person who already has a weak and dependant mentality. The same goes for cannabis or anything else. The key is to be fully aware of what you are doing, and fully aware of what you can cope with without it fucking you up.

I fully agree with that. I might appear as some health freak, but personally I don't have any problem with using drugs or whatever as long as I'm not bothered with inhaling somebody else's smoke or get beer over me. I strongly believe that weed is more dangerous than nicotine or caffeine, but I might be wrong. I don't use cigarettes or anything known as soft drugs or hard drugs and I don't have a need for it so I won't be trying it anyways, but I certainly understand why somebody would find it relaxing, distressing, or whatever. Sometimes I drink and I know that most of the times I drink more than I should. That's why alcohol is so dangerous cause most people don't really know how far they can go.

We all know that 1 or 2 units of an alcohol containing beverage a day is actually good for your health, but what about nicotine, caffeine, THC, psylocibin, etc. Does any of them have a positive affect on your health and, if yes, to which extent?

Originally posted by MrPavlos
luitzen u give me the feeling u came to our age from like a decade ago What is your age? Personally I believe that in the '60s/'70s there were a lot more 20 year old hippies using all kinds of stuff than now. I don't believe that drugs use is so much higher nowadays. Alcohol use is a lot more alarming, especially in the age category of 12-18.

luitzen you are out to lunch. Classic HATER

there are many many successful people who smoke weed.

Snoop Dogg and allmost every rapper for that matter. How about NFL and NBA athletes, I guarantee atleast %10 of them smoke and they are some of the most motivated people in the world. Canada first gold medal in snowboarding came from a guy who smokes.

I am not saying they succeed because they smoke but one can definantaly have a long a fulfilling life even if they like to smoke cronic.

As far as the story about that girl. It allmost makes me sick to read how you view this. I am willing to bet there is something else behind her downfall if it is a downfall at all. Did you ever think that maybe she was/is in an abusive relationship or other shitty situation and smoking a joint helps her relax for abit. Also is it so crazy to think that the world as we know it is ending in 2012? A whole civilization believed it they were called the mayans. Is it any crazier than believing that God created everything and there is no such thing as evolution or dinasaurs (personally I dont think so), yet god worshiping people are not called crazy. Saying that she will end up with an abusive spouse is nonsense, from my experience pot smokers are much more loving and submissive then the average person.

My advice to you is to chill out and not judge people so much. Sure weed is not for you, that certainly does not make you better than people who choose to smoke. To say that anyone who smokes is destine for a life of poverty and dispair is obsurd.

THC has been known and proven to cause a chemical imbalance in the brain which can lead to psychosis. Sure for some people it may not have this effect, but I think you are pretty ignorant if you choose to believe that it has no negative effect on some people. It can influence creativity sure, but also influences lazyness and paranoia and in some cases delusions and hallucinations.

Originally posted by bkbart
Snoop Dogg and allmost every rapper for that matter. How about NFL and NBA athletes, I guarantee atleast %10 of them smoke and they are some of the most motivated people in the world. Canada first gold medal in snowboarding came from a guy who smokes.

Do you really think a professional athletic person would be dumb enough to take illegal drugs ♦ pretty sure they have drugs testing every few months...

Originally posted by bkbart
luitzen you are out to lunch. Classic HATER

I'm fond of other people. I would be glad to help here if possible, but I don't believe I can.

there are many many successful people who smoke weed.

I didn't say you can't, but if you're a regular smoker you won't be successful.

Snoop Dogg and allmost every rapper for that matter.

Most big artists started doing stuff after they became popular. Weed of course increases creativity and when only used occasionally health risks aren't that big. I can't believe most of these big stars were already serious drug addicts for 10 years before they broke through.

How about NFL and NBA athletes, I guarantee atleast %10 of them smoke and they are some of the most motivated people in the world. Canada first gold medal in snowboarding came from a guy who smokes.

That would be quite moronic since they could also use other stuff which really would enhance their performance. I don't believe their teams would tolerate use of any drugs.

I am not saying they succeed because they smoke but one can definantaly have a long a fulfilling life even if they like to smoke cronic.

Maybe I wasn't clear here, but not when they smoke heavily. The same applies to drinking.

It allmost makes me sick to read how you view this.

It's the truth.

I am willing to bet there is something else behind her downfall if it is a downfall at all.

That would be kind a stupid since weed is the most likely cause. From any point of view. Not to mention that I definitely know this girl better than you do.

Did you ever think that maybe she was/is in an abusive relationship or other shitty situation and smoking a joint helps her relax for a bit.

Of course there's something which made her smoke. For example parents which give their children joints when they're only 8 years old. That doesn't mean that smoking weed isn't the major cause of all their social problems.

Also is it so crazy to think that the world as we know it is ending in 2012? A whole civilization believed it they were called the Mayans.

Yeah, that's quite moronic since the Mayans didn't believe it at all. The Mayans knew about error margins and they knew that when they made predictions about they sky for 15 000 years that there would be a certain error and that there would be no point in making a longer calendar since they're grand grandchildren would be able to do it a few thousand years later.

Is it any crazier than believing that God created everything and there is no such thing as evolution or dinosaurs (personally I dont think so), yet god worshipping people are not called crazy.

This has nothing to do with the topic, but I can say that there are quite some reasons I don't believe anymore. Despite the fact that I was raised Christian from birth.

Saying that she will end up with an abusive spouse is nonsense, from my experience pot smokers are much more loving and submissive then the average person.

Either that or someone's gonna take a run with their money. People with psychological problems are vulnerable people and often are made use of.

My advice to you is to chill out and not judge people so much. Sure weed is not for you, that certainly does not make you better than people who choose to smoke.

Like I said, I don't have any problems with weed. There's nothing wrong with occasional use for recreation. I myself drink a couple of beers every now and then and when I do I drink too much most of the times. It's effects are of the same magnitude, at least, but I'm not addicted.

To say that anyone who smokes is destine for a life of poverty and despair is absurd.

I never said that. I wrote that this will happen when you're heavily addicted (though I wasn't very clear about 'heavily' at first.

I am quite sure that even soft addicts will have quite some problems in the long runs, but they have a much bigger chance to overcome them.

Btw, guys who can get me some :club:?
♠_cool:

Originally posted by p0kerQT

Originally posted by bkbart
Snoop Dogg and allmost every rapper for that matter. How about NFL and NBA athletes, I guarantee atleast %10 of them smoke and they are some of the most motivated people in the world. Canada first gold medal in snowboarding came from a guy who smokes.

Do you really think a professional athletic person would be dumb enough to take illegal drugs ♦ pretty sure they have drugs testing every few months...

Em yea bkbart said right that ATLEAST 10% of these guys smoke and some use heavier drugs too...

Now look guys,noone said drugs aint negative.Even weed has some negative effects in the long term,which i believe smokers know,and choose to keep.Now there aint no reason to debate.Luitzen i am 20 years old and maybe yea it's cause of the age that i like weed.But i agree again with bart that smokers are ussually cool peacefull guys

michael vick proves some atheletes aren't that smart ( unless changing a multi-million dollar contract to be in jail and broke because promoting dog fights is smart)

and Am I the only one here that has never tried weed/cigarretes?

All those who claim to have proof that long-term use of weed causes psychotic damage, please present your proof so I can refute it with twice as many studies the result of which contradicts your beliefs.

Originally posted by erptech
Btw, guys who can get me some :club:?
♠_cool:

PM me and maybe we can arrange something

Originally posted by alejandrosh
and Am I the only one here that has never tried weed/cigarretes?

Well, if you post in a weed related topic, it's not that rare to see a lot of stoners.

Originally posted by alejandrosh
michael vick proves some atheletes aren't that smart ( unless changing a multi-million dollar contract to be in jail and broke because promoting dog fights is smart)

and Am I the only one here that has never tried weed/cigarretes?

I smoked cigarretes for a year in high school, its a stupid peer-pressure habit for "show" in order to look cool. I hope other people are lucky enough and have the willpower to stop smoking(took me 3 attempts). The more you wait the harder it is imo.

Cannabis Psychosis

Originally posted by TheBrood

Originally posted by alejandrosh
michael vick proves some atheletes aren't that smart ( unless changing a multi-million dollar contract to be in jail and broke because promoting dog fights is smart)

and Am I the only one here that has never tried weed/cigarretes?

I smoked cigarretes for a year in high school, its a stupid peer-pressure habit for "show" in order to look cool. I hope other people are lucky enough and have the willpower to stop smoking(took me 3 attempts). The more you wait the harder it is imo.

wish I had the will power to stop when I was younger, kids will do anythin they see their friends doing n I've smoked more than half my life now coz of stupidity

Hi all, my nick means potsmoking bunny in dutch, and that's exactly what i do, all day. I allso play poker all day. It helps me calm down en focus on my play. For me it's ev+ ♦ ♦ ♦

Originally posted by luitzen
Imagine you're 14 when you heavily start using weed. When you're 24 you're completely messed up and you're life is over (I guarantee you that's gonna happen unless you win the lottery so that you're able to smoke for some more years). You may live for another 60/70/80 years, but you'll life will be shit from this moment.

Wow, it will take a lot to convince me of this. I live in Morocco, where cannabis consumption esp. among males is borderline epic. I know plenty of guys in their 50's now who have been regular consumers since their teens, and I'm telling you... they're some of the sharpest, smartest, most cultured, sociable & amicable people I know, not to mention they're still successful as ever with their jobs & families. The truly fucked up people over here are the alcoholics ♦

Regarding the withdrawal symptoms that some mentioned, well I can say from personal experience that I used to be a full-time stoner for 3 years (and I'm talking 6+ joints a day, every single day), then I went a whole year without taking a single puff... which was after moving to a new place where cannabis wasn't as easily accessible (but still available) - still, I just never got the urge to go ask around or look for a dealer. I was completely normal and didn't notice any changes. I only smoked again when it found its way back to me ♦... but even then I didn't go back to being the maniac I used to be (even though I still love the stuff)... I'm more of an occasional user nowadays.

So I just want to stress again that it's not weed that will make or break your life. It's only a big deal if YOU decide to make a big deal out of it. YOU are the one who will make or break your own life. I've done every drug including cocaine and opium (two of the most highly addictive drugs), yet I never allowed myself to ever become addicted because I assumed full responsibility of what I was doing. I was never going to blame drugs if I did ever become fucked up, I was only going to blame myself. We see plenty of cases where people who fail in life blame weed for their shortcomings... and why not - weed is an easy and convenient scapegoat to blame for all your failings at life.... but the fact is, they themselves are the ones who can't function in society to begin with. It's not like they were going to set the world alight if it wasn't for weed. In contrast, all the successful people who consume it never make a big deal out of it - they just want to enjoy it for themselves and then get on with their lives/jobs/families as usual. To them, it's just like a cup of coffee

PS - as for the schizophrenia link... the only study I'm aware of is one that suggests that cannabis MAY trigger schizophrenia in people who ALREADY are genetically prone to it. Nothing too conclusive there imo.

Originally posted by nafar84
I've done every drug including cocaine and opium (two of the most highly addictive drugs)

Hope you haven't done pure dope, it's the most addictive and the most harmful one. Well, if you had, you probably wouldn't be here talking about it...

Originally posted by nafar84
PS - as for the schizophrenia link... the only study I'm aware of is one that suggests that cannabis MAY trigger schizophrenia in people who ALREADY are genetically prone to it. Nothing too conclusive there imo.

I was typing a long response, but this was essentially what I was going to say. No conclusive studies have ever been conducted.

ok luitzen you somewhat redeemed yourself in my books, since I agree with some of your counter points. And it seams you do have a heart after all.

I CANT agree that most artist who smoke only started after they made the big time. Of course it is possible some of them started after but neither you or me can prove that and I personally find it very hard to believe that snoop wasnt smoking cron with his hommies at the age of 10.

Also about the athletes, I am huge into NBA and NFL and I have seen surveys that the athletes answer and the results are staggering. Almost half the player smoke weed. I wrote it down to %10 to be sure I was underestimating. Your drug test explination is wack. The test are a joke they almost allways are tipped off and it is easy to purify with a drink if you only take weed. Also players get suspended all the time for substance abuse. Ricky Williams got busted three time for weed and it only became news on the third time, since then he has played in the CFL and is now back in the NFL. Trust me these test are a joke. I just read a book on the dallas cowboys of the 90s, they were winning super bowls and Michael Irvin (and half the team) was snorting coke, hell even smoking crack, every other night and he/they went on to become a hall of fame wideout/dynasty. How about chris anderson got suspended for a year due to multiple infractions using methanfetamines (sp) and he was back in the league as soon as he was eligible. ATHLETES DONT GIVE A SHIT ABOUT DRUG TESTS

How about Hollywood or politics I would say those people are pretty successful. Maybe it is more cocaine abuse but none the less.

Bottom line like someone said before

Those who take it for some kicks, it usually doesnt send them in a downward spiral.

Those who take it to escape from the shitty lives... well it is too bad but there lives were already shitty and probably will continue to be wether or not they use.

O ya and I never knew you were an ancient Mayan expert. Pretty hard to prove what you said about 2012 considering pretty much any scripture/artifacts that could give us clues from this period is destroyed.

Originally posted by luitzen
Everyone who's saying weed isn't bad for your health or affecting your mental health is talking utter BS. First of all weed is carcinogen and may cause mental dependence/addiction. When smoked it also can cause respiratory problems. Effects of smoking weed are less than those of smoking ordinary tobacco, but the only reason for this is because weed smokers usually smoke less than ordinary smokers.

Weed may cause panic attacks and paranoia in the long run. In combination with certain medicines it may cause hallucinations or psychoses. Mental diseases may be triggered in people who are genetically prone to this. Use of weed significantly increases chance to various mental disorders. Even one joint may cause schizophrenia. Regular users have a 50 times bigger chance to get schizophrenia than normal people.

Weed disturbs cognitive and psycho motoric functions and when used on a regular basis it may cause loss of memory. I can't imagine how that ever would be +EV.

I once met a girl who was using weed on a regular basis and she was really messed up. She believed in all kinds of popular conspiracy theories and online religions such as our nearing end in 2012. Her future doesn't look very bright (even though she may not care at all since the world will be gone in 2012 anyways). She'll never be able to keep any good paying job for long and there's a big chance she'll marry a man who's either abusive or leave with all the money. She'll probably become more and more dependent of weed in the future, causing financial problems. I bet I could have fucked her when I paid her 20 bucks and she could earn a little money since she was (still) good looking. That's below my standards so I didn't do that. In the best case she could made a living as a hooker, but who does want that.

In short, everyone who believes weed doesn't have any negative affects is kind a stupid or on the shit already.

I'm going to prove that the bs you are spewing out, is false. I've smoked weed, since i was 12 years old (ok, that's a little young, i admit it) and smoked heavily ever after. When i was 23, i had allready bought my first house and had 2 companies( a bar and a decoratorcompany. I worked 100 hours per week. And now, with playing poker, i'm still allways stoned. And making profit. Every time i evaluate my play and get better and better. http://www.pokertableratings.com/fulltilt-player-search/blowkonijn Maybe for some people, smoking weed is dissastrous, but alcohol is a bigger problem imo. So don't assume that anybody, who's smoking a lot of weed, will end up totally fucked. ♦ ♦

ow yeah.....and this: http://nl.pokerstrategy.com/ranking/nl/ and i just started playing poker a couple of months ago......and every day totally stoned ♦

Originally posted by blowkonijn
ow yeah.....and this: http://nl.pokerstrategy.com/ranking/nl/ and i just started playing poker a couple of months ago......and every day totally stoned ♦

Ok so this guy is a motivation to keep up getting stoned and play

But seriously now,guys i started this thread to find some green power and not to trigger a conversation bout what drugs do to our world,it's funny though how this thread evolved.Anyway weed guys should be legal,it's a personal choise imo,people smoke and get fucked up and feel unable to do anything right,and other people smoke and do stuff better.

Smoke de Ganja people

Cheers