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AK on the BB 4bet pot

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zetozinho
Joined: 18.06.2017


Pre is ok. AK'o is strong enough to call a 4bet from the BTN.
Flop I'm checking in the dark.
Turn... meh.
River... JJ is one of the hands he'd play this way (don't knw if JJ 4bets pre IP, but whatever). 99 are not 4betting this pre.
It could look like a monster slowplay (AA). I block AA. I beat KK and also block this combos. Flush is not likely given it's a 4bet pot imo. A♠: is on the table, so forget AKs /AQs. Maybe some KQs, but wouldn't he bet OTT?
Ideas?


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12 replies
filip212
Joined: 30.05.2010

5bet ALL-IN preflop ;)
as played bet on flop...
bet on turn...
check/call river against odds


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MyFloXyBabY
Joined: 15.02.2010

Don't be paranoid or fancy and 5bet shove pre. It's BB vs BU.
As played bet 1/3 turn.


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zetozinho
Joined: 18.06.2017

Originally posted by MyFloXyBabY
Don't be paranoid or fancy and 5bet shove pre. It's BB vs BU.
As played bet 1/3 turn.

Why 1/3 and not other size?
As played, is the river call ok?

Originally posted by filip212
check/call river against odds

Pot odds? Or you are talking about the fact that I may be beaten?


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filip212
Joined: 30.05.2010

yeah pot odds vs equity against range of your opponent. You need bigger equity then you have pot odds.
I think 1/3 on turn is not good. If he bets 1/3 on that turn he gaves good odds to 1 card flushdraw to continue...


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MyFloXyBabY
Joined: 15.02.2010

That's the point. I suppose 1/3 is the sizing that annoys the most stuff like KK-QQ etc.


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zetozinho
Joined: 18.06.2017

Annoy how? Any spade is going to call it IP and we block 0 spades... besides, the ace is on the table.


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MyFloXyBabY
Joined: 15.02.2010

KsKx has only 22% equity against you here you know (and frankly I'm already surprised it's that much lol) and it's not a little SRP with much leverage behind. 1/3 is already committing you for stacks on the river (and in 4bet pot villain is allowed to have something else than a high spade draw). And there are also all the KK-QQ without spades and all.

People fear FD way too much. The goal of this game isn't to identify a FD in villain's range and give it the worse odds of the world. Even at live casinos versus drunken donks that game could be more subtle than that if you'd only allow it.
Or it also couldn't. In that special case you'd be forgiven.


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zetozinho
Joined: 18.06.2017

Imagine you bet 1/3 OTT and a spade comes OTR. How do you play? All-in?
The thing is: if he doesn't have a spade, he can call 1/3 IP with is whole range basically.
If he has, he can even raise you. So I don't really get the point. Besides, you get commited like you say if he calls.
On the other hand, you check, he bets and you have a difficult decision (depending on the size). I'm lost


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MyFloXyBabY
Joined: 15.02.2010

If you don't like to commit yourself, just shove. (Anyway I'd 5bet pre lol). The whole point of being commit is that it doesn't matter you can call (or better, bet yourself) on the river in the case he's brave or stupid enough to just flat on the turn. That's why that move has a strong leverage effect.

I didn't understand the "if he doesn't have a spade,... with his whole range" thing. ?(
Fearing a spade is weird for one more reason : he should bet it himself ! He should shove with it on the flop and whatnot.

To sum it up, a spade is gonna come, or not, and he's gonna have it, or not, but by betting big you won't conjure that outcome. You're just gonna allow him to make less mistakes with his whole range. If he has a spades he stacks you. Sorry for you. Might as well earn a little more of the remain.


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zetozinho
Joined: 18.06.2017

Just 5bet pre and avoid this s...t spots.
What about donk shove OTF? Like a delayed pre-flop shove.


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MyFloXyBabY
Joined: 15.02.2010

That's becoming really weird lol. What would that accomplish ? Beside allowing KK- a chance to escape without losing his whole stack I mean.
I think you're trying too much to outmind villains in pecular situations given only your hand and the board instead of just relying more on sound game theory and practical knowledge, what your whole range looks like what you'd want to accomplish with it on average etc.


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zetozinho
Joined: 18.06.2017

I can have an ace, he can have an ace. I don't have spades, he probably has one.
He's betting his A 100% of the times OTF, betting his flush 100% of the times OTT.
He's checking 99/AA OTF 100% of the times. He's checking two streets with JJ-KK with no spade 100% of the times.
He's checking JJ-KK with a spade OTF and betting OTT after my check.
The way he played his hand is 99-AA-JJ. Don't even need him to turn them up.
Stupid call pre. Stupid call OTR. Life's easy :mdr:

Do this in 4bet pots is piece of cake. I can't take it on 3bet pots. In regular raise-call pots my head starts to spin around. In limped pots a tornado has ripped my head off.

I beat A♣:Q♣:, A♥:Q♥:. I beat all the TT, KK, QQ.
I loose to JJ, 99, AA, K♠:Q♠:.
I draw to A♥:K♥: and A♣:K♣:.
All in all, I'm a 71% favorite OTR. Call is obivious. Sorry to bother you guys.


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