Well there are ton of situations in sng especially where we are behind if getting called but initial action will be clearly profitable. In this case pot is already 390 when it gets to us. If we get it down it will be 20% addition to our stack. Plus even if we do get called our equity will be bit over 30% We have no info on BU here but if he is usual fishy limper he will fold very often and BB will wake up rarely as well. A3s is not that great postflop hand but it do block calling hands versus shove.
A3s will hit good pair on flop (A) 15% of time which will usually give us sort of mediocre hand to go with. Could be two street value bet or as bluff catch versus multi street aggression. Hitting 3 will tend to give only speculative hit that in 3way pot is often best to just fold versus normal bet. Depends mostly on backup equity we have. But e.g. if flop comes 973r and we face bet we can have best hand but continuing will easily end in nasty situations.
Flush draw will be given 11% of time and gutshot also 11% of time. Equity of later one tends to be tough to realize. OESD draw will happen next to never. Hitting two pair+ is obviously nice for any hand but that will happen less than 5% of time. So good things for postflop are quite limited for this hand.
Whatever BB will attack wide or not is its own question. But completing will give great opportunity for it. If we look this from BB shoes we have 450 in pot versus two players. SB (hero) will almost never have calling hand versus shove (for good reason) so main concern is BU. If he is 30/15 or so villain who likes to limp and raise he will often have very unbalanced limping range. Which means total fold equity for BB can well be around 90% making even any2 shove heavily +EV.
So when taking these into account shove as default play is likely optimal decision. But as always things are not black and white in poker. Alternative lines will almost always have bad and good sides.
Originally posted by oblak90
I do not care what is EV of check and what is EV of push preflop because SB could as well fold preflop and than his EV would be 0 without taking the risk and it is better for some players. Winrate in SnG is not a sum of winrates in each hands.
Even if EV of shoving is higher than EV of calling preflop, when you just call, you invest 0.5BB (this is SnG not cash game so 60 will become much less than 0.5BB after few minutes) open yourself for opportunity to earn significantly more if you hit your flop and gain much more information about villains.
We can give up small edge situations sometimes by expecting future situation to give more edge. Especially in fishy game. But this is always sort of dangerous approach as in turbo or hyper speed games blinds will tend to go up pretty fast. So by giving up on +EV situations we can also quickly start to lose our overall edge by overestimating future situations.
If aiming to compare e.g. EV of call versus EV of shove its pretty nonsensical to say that taking most +EV option would not be best. After all you should be taking into account postflop scenarios in the call already. Or your estimations of it. There is no way to really know exacts on either decision.
Originally posted by oblak90
We can take a read on BB if he is willing to raise with/without good hands. Usually unknown BB checks. Then SB is without lead and without position so he can check on flop whatever happen and see what BB and CO would do. If BB checks then SB is likely to place semi-continuation bet (there are implied odds!). So SB is able to collect informations just for 60 and gets 5:1 pot odds + implied odds with A3s. It's a bargain for me.
Not sure if you are mixing positions in above or something. But we are postflop in classic "sandwich" situation which is not good for us. This is also reason why SB calling versus raise is not that recommendable. Limping is of course more viable option for its better price.
So yes if we limp preflop we hope that BB check and we get to see flop. As pot is limped there is no actual aggressor obviously but we are still first to speak with two people behind who have not given too much information about their hands. So we want to check pretty often. If BB check and BU bet we get into that sandwich part. Now BU is telling that he has something but we still dont know what BB is planning. He will often have air and is planning to fold but he could also be aiming for check-raise. Also because we are in 3way pot we should in general give bit more respect for BU flop bet and because of these reasons we usually want to just give up marginal stuff like bottom pair or some gutshot etc.
Overall I would say hand like 97o likely have more postflop playability in this spot compared to A3s.
