To be honest, I have played some PLO tourneys. Run good, cashed in about half of them.
I decided to open a new project thread for the solver-stuff, so all the real stuff would be in one place. And this is for all non-solver-stuff-things, like fishing.
https://forums.pokerstrategy.com/forum/thread.php?threadid=490044
Originally posted by deralte71
routing for the Finnish boys in the final. Go Suomi!
I got a free sports bet on 888 and used it to bet on Finland vs Russia, and on Canada vs Czech Republic
I have to say that winning with that team might the biggest thing in history of sports. Miracle on Ice was just one game.
We had 0 NHL players. Only couple even from KHL. Winning anything was impossible. And the way they beat Sweden, Russia and Canada in playoffs was incredible. If you know Miracle on Ice (USA vs Russia), this was better than that as Finland dominated games with the perfect strategy and execution. And in THREE games!
This is what I read: We had no No Limit Holdem players we only had K.....Limit Players?? What is K-Limit Holdem? 
Gotta love when holdem players play PLO. I screwed the screenshot, but he has J832. Called big bets on the flop, on the turn and on the river. Especially river call with 3high flush gets mention, or then he thought he had KKK88 boat. Snap called me. Probably thinks it's just a bad beat, nutboat vs quads. Too bad I don't use chat, would have said "aww, unlucky mate!".
Can you feel the Friday vibes? I can. Join the stream and get your shares of vibes! BPM Stream starting up at 20 CEST (Beer, Poker & Metal). Including giveaways! https://www.twitch.tv/kyyberi
Solver strategy vs small stakes exploitation continues today at 20.30 cest with PLO Vision and Pokerjuice. After that, live games and saturday funtime. Join at Twitch channel.
Deep waters, my friends, deep waters.
It looks like at the moment it is almost impossible for me to win an all-in situation, unless I have 100% equity. For past few days, I have lost quite many all-ins, and in most I have had the best equity. A lot of those happened at PartyPoker, and there is very high rate of Quads at the tables. And when one loses to 2, 3 or 6 outers constantly, it's time to search for the tin foil hat.
Is Party rigged? Honestly, I am not sure. Yeah variance is a bitch, and streaks happen. But as no one (without black market software) can get the data from the games, who knows? I know that I have lost around 50 buyins to VERY soft playerpool, while generating good and profitable spots constantly. Unheard downswing? Nope. But as I can't even see my hands and results, nor anyone else can, how can we be sure that games are not rigged?
"Why would they do that? It doesn't make sense!" is the quite common phrase. Well, history is full of companies who have done something that no one would ever believe. Would it be THAT weird, if a site rigs the games so that weaker (losing) players have small edge in rng? If that sounds ridiculous, there is an Indian pokerroom that is accused to do just that. There are even posts in internet where site employees have said that they make losing players win in all-in situations. Of course all of that is just posts and rumors. I played once in that site, and stopped playing cos the games were rigged in my opinion. Site had forced run it twice, and I lost almost always at least the other one, no matter what the equities were. When you split the pot 9/10 times with set vs set or nut fullhouse vs 1 outer, it can't be just variance. And internet had quite a lot of similar observations from other players. So site rigging the rng has happened.
And if you think it, for a site rigging the rng in favor of losing players creates only good outcomes. Regs will keep playing, as they will rationalize things and suck it up. Bad players win a bit more, so they are more happy and probably over estimate their skills. Meaning more playing, and when they finally lose their bankroll they will deposit more a bit more likely. Just like in slot machines. Once someone wins a big win, he has the idea of that game being great reinforced to his mind and he will keep playing it. Even when it doesn't give big wins anymore.
So, back to the original question: Do I think that Party has rigged rng? Answer is the same, I don't know. What bothers me is that they removed hand histories completely, which opens the door for doubt. Now we just have to trust them. For now, I put it all into the variance. But if this ****** keeps going on, I will just play somewhere else.
P.S. If they had the same system as RIO, where you will get your hand histories 24h later and only your own nickname is visible, it would be good. Then you could review your own play and have at least data of how you run in all-in situations. If suddenly a lot of winning players find themselves running a lot under EV, it would be alarming. So allowing hand histories gives players more safety and trust towards the fairness of the games. Removing hand histories works the opposite.
Originally posted by Kyyberi
P.S. If they had the same system as RIO, where you will get your hand histories 24h later and only your own nickname is visible, it would be good. Then you could review your own play and have at least data of how you run in all-in situations. If suddenly a lot of winning players find themselves running a lot under EV, it would be alarming. So allowing hand histories gives players more safety and trust towards the fairness of the games. Removing hand histories works the opposite.
PartyPoker has the "My Game" tool in their lobby which will generate some kind of report.
It requires 100 hands, and so far only applies to Hold'em so no use to either of us.
You're right that to play on a poker room you must trust it absolutely -- but not blindly.
A complete, detailed record of hands played is a necessity if I'm to play anywhere.
This record helps me track my play's win-loss results without tracking it manually myself, which can lead to being "results oriented".
It also serves as a check on the room itself.
As you mentioned it gives the ability to analyse and critique your own play, and in forums, you can discuss hands with others.
Some sites -- like Natural8 and its skins offer a limited, visual representation of hands, but they lack critical information -- the starting stacks among other things
Let us know what you decide to do.
As for myself, I withdrew.
If things change, I'll be happy to play there again.
All the best,
VS
Well, at least for now I will grind at Partypoker. Stream coming up at 20 cest today: https://www.twitch.tv/kyyberi
Monday is a funday! PLO Cash Games stream starting at 18:30 CEST or so. https://www.twitch.tv/kyyberi
Aaaaw, nice to read that after my vacation! 
Especially after making a very bad bluff at the CG-table today! 
There are no bad bluffs. Just bad calls from opponents.
Originally posted by Kyyberi
There are no bad bluffs. Just bad calls from opponents.
Yes, and in that hand this was one.
Originally posted by Kyyberi
Deep waters, my friends, deep waters.It looks like at the moment it is almost impossible for me to win an all-in situation, unless I have 100% equity. For past few days, I have lost quite many all-ins, and in most I have had the best equity. A lot of those happened at PartyPoker, and there is very high rate of Quads at the tables. And when one loses to 2, 3 or 6 outers constantly, it's time to search for the tin foil hat.
Is Party rigged? Honestly, I am not sure. Yeah variance is a bitch, and streaks happen. But as no one (without black market software) can get the data from the games, who knows? I know that I have lost around 50 buyins to VERY soft playerpool, while generating good and profitable spots constantly. Unheard downswing? Nope. But as I can't even see my hands and results, nor anyone else can, how can we be sure that games are not rigged?
"Why would they do that? It doesn't make sense!" is the quite common phrase. Well, history is full of companies who have done something that no one would ever believe. Would it be THAT weird, if a site rigs the games so that weaker (losing) players have small edge in rng? If that sounds ridiculous, there is an Indian pokerroom that is accused to do just that. There are even posts in internet where site employees have said that they make losing players win in all-in situations. Of course all of that is just posts and rumors. I played once in that site, and stopped playing cos the games were rigged in my opinion. Site had forced run it twice, and I lost almost always at least the other one, no matter what the equities were. When you split the pot 9/10 times with set vs set or nut fullhouse vs 1 outer, it can't be just variance. And internet had quite a lot of similar observations from other players. So site rigging the rng has happened.
And if you think it, for a site rigging the rng in favor of losing players creates only good outcomes. Regs will keep playing, as they will rationalize things and suck it up. Bad players win a bit more, so they are more happy and probably over estimate their skills. Meaning more playing, and when they finally lose their bankroll they will deposit more a bit more likely. Just like in slot machines. Once someone wins a big win, he has the idea of that game being great reinforced to his mind and he will keep playing it. Even when it doesn't give big wins anymore.
So, back to the original question: Do I think that Party has rigged rng? Answer is the same, I don't know. What bothers me is that they removed hand histories completely, which opens the door for doubt. Now we just have to trust them. For now, I put it all into the variance. But if this ****** keeps going on, I will just play somewhere else.
P.S. If they had the same system as RIO, where you will get your hand histories 24h later and only your own nickname is visible, it would be good. Then you could review your own play and have at least data of how you run in all-in situations. If suddenly a lot of winning players find themselves running a lot under EV, it would be alarming. So allowing hand histories gives players more safety and trust towards the fairness of the games. Removing hand histories works the opposite.
It sounds pretty concerning - with no way to track all in EV, they could get away with rigging it slightly in favor of losing/recreational players. I haven't played on PP since before they banned HUDs so I'm not sure what it's like over there, but damn, 50 BI downswing, that's sick! I personally hate playing without a HUD, it feels like I'm playing blind. If you're concerned, I would move to Stars - they get a lot of shit, but at least you know your money is safe with them.
It sounds pretty concerning - with no way to track all in EV, they could get away with rigging it slightly in favor of losing/recreational players. I haven't played on PP since before they banned HUDs so I'm not sure what it's like over there, but damn, 50 BI downswing, that's sick!
I already thought of that too when I had a 50 BI downswing on Partypoker! I was running brutally under EV, lost vs every single 3-outer, got suck-out after suck-out, had totally crazy coolers, was constantly running into higher pairs (QQ into KK, KK into AA, JJ into QQ, JJ into KK), I flopped the nuts, a fun player made a very "optimistic" call with a marginal and but got there on turn and/or river all the time and that happened so often, that I really started thinking. I don´t wanna say Partypoker is rigged or something.... it just made my think a little bit that maybe ...well, who knows.....???
Over and over in the past 10 years I've posted in "it's rigged" threads something similar to this:
To play poker on-line you must have faith that the game is fair.
You must trust that then Random Number Generators are truly random
If you don't have that faith, then you must not play on that site, and if your doubt extends to online poker in general, then it is foolish to play online poker at all.
Part of the reason that we can maintain that faith is that we can examine our own hand histories, and spot patterns indicating collusion or other misbehaviour on the part of players -- or the site itself.
That one single tool we had to confirm our faith is now denied us.
I strongly doubt that PartyPoker is rigged.
But I can no longer prove it even the limited extent I could before.
That
https://forums.pokerstrategy.com/forum/thread.php?threadid=490044went a little further than just one month. And as it's still going on, the confusion of having two separate blogs is too much. So I will stick to this one, and post some of that strategical content to this blog.
Afternoon Study Session about squeezing ranges, here you go:
