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Did I make a bad river fold ?

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mathkid
Joined: 30.03.2013

IMO ...should have folded pre but flop okay and reluctantly called the turn. I think I should have called the river and am asking the forum for advice/suggestions. Thank you !

Winning Poker Network (Yatahay) - $0.25 PL Hi (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 5 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

UTG: $52.26 (VPIP: 47.83, PFR: 23.91, 3Bet Preflop: 8.70, Hands: 46)
CO: $27.03 (VPIP: 60.98, PFR: 26.83, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 41)
Hero (BTN): $28.35
SB: $24.75 (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 7)
BB: $25.00 (VPIP: 48.65, PFR: 35.14, 3Bet Preflop: 21.43, Hands: 37)

SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.35) Hero has Q♥ K♣ 7♥ 6♥

fold, CO raises to $0.85, Hero calls $0.85, fold, BB calls $0.60

Flop: ($2.65, 3 players) Q♠ 8♠ 9♦
BB checks, CO checks, Hero checks

Turn: ($2.65, 3 players) 6♣
BB bets $2.65, fold, Hero calls $2.65

River: ($7.95, 2 players) 4♣
BB bets $7.95, fold

Spoiler

BB wins $7.56
Rake paid $0.27

$0.12 was deducted from the pot for the jackpot.


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Super Moderator
VorpalF2F
Joined: 02.09.2010

I figured that "No way 2 pair is ever good here"
Then I looked at the spoiler and realized that there wouldn't be anything in it. :coolface:

I still think I'm right
Even if it would have been good this time I don't think it would be good often enough to justify calling with two pair vs a river pot bet unless you have some sort of indication that this player can get way out of line.

Even the turn would be a candidate for a fold IMHO


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mathkid
Joined: 30.03.2013

Yes I too leaning that way VorpalF2F but what I really wish is Kyberi would stop in and comment. He is big on 2 pair hands in PLO and

I wanted to see what he would say or maybe he could even put it on his software ( forget the name of it )

Here is the equity via the hand: PreFlop - Hero - 39.09%, Opponent #1 - 30.46% , Opponent #2 - 30.45%

Flop - Hero - 34.68%, Opponent #1 - 32.72% , Opponent #2 - 32.60%

Now, everyone checks the flop so everyone may be weak.

Turn - Hero - 38.88%, Opponent #1 - 30.54% , Opponent #2 - 30.58%

So, HERO's equity goes up on TURN as he makes 2 pair and still no made flush, etc.

Now, Opponent #1 bets and O#2 Folds so we are now heads up.

River - Hero 67.19% Equity and Opponent #1 has 32.81% Equity.

So, F me ! I think I found out the answer to my question VorpalF2F :(


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Coach
Kyyberi
Joined: 09.07.2010

Fold pre.

Softwares can't really solve this hand, as the only question you need to ask on the river is this:

Can opponent pot turn and river with a bluff?

As it is BB who bets the turn, he has JT and smaller straights in his range. I wouldn't expect him to lead turn with a blockers, and that line is very credible for JT or T7. I would fold the turn, as you have really poor equity versus the range he is representing, and as he is aggressive he will fire all blanks rivers anyway. To call the turn (and then all blank rivers) you would need to have reads/info that he pots 2 streets with blockers.


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mathkid
Joined: 30.03.2013

Thanks Kyyberi. That is good stuff. So, basically when I make 2 pair on the turn, I need to be thinking more along the lines as the Turn prob helped him much more than me ?

Yet and still, the equity is very misleading is what you are saying to me ?


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mathkid
Joined: 30.03.2013

and yes I def agree that fold pre would have been the play


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mathkid
Joined: 30.03.2013

One last comment Kyyberi,

Why does my equity go up so much on the river ? ( according to the software that is )

After looking at that hand again, I see more and more. I guess that is why we spend time AWAY FROM THE TABLES to study / review our HH's. Def fold pre , especially, with a raise right before me. Had that raise not of occurred , should I have opened the hand with my hand ?


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Coach
Kyyberi
Joined: 09.07.2010

I have no idea as I don't know what range you gave to your opponents.

2 pairs is a tricky hand to play as it improves rarely (around 10% of times in the next street). In PLO, you shouldn't try to learn too much shortcuts how to play certain hands, as there are a lot of different situations with 2 pairs. There are different boards, multiway/hu and then you always have 2 other cards in your hand. All of those affect your decision making.

To have any idea where you are in a hand, you need to give opponent a range and then see how are you doing against that. So in here, what is BB range when he pots the flop against 2 capped ranges?


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mathkid
Joined: 30.03.2013

u mean the turn kyyberi he pots the turn not the flop sir


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Coach
Kyyberi
Joined: 09.07.2010

Yes, meant Turn.


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