Skip to forum
Notifications
Clear all

Common All In Mistake

7 Posts
5 Users
3 Reactions
252 Views
srichards
Joined: 26.11.2012

Many players shove with a flush draw or an open ended straight draw at the Flop. 35% or 31% chance of hitting your flush or straight. And even if you hit it, you may lose. It is a BIG mistake to shove flush or straight draws at the flop.
Ignition - $0.25 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BB: 115.96 BB (VPIP: 6.45, PFR: 3.23, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 32)
UTG: 59.48 BB (VPIP: 28.13, PFR: 3.13, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 32)
UTG+1: 76.12 BB (VPIP: 6.25, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 32)
MP: 214.48 BB (VPIP: 28.13, PFR: 18.75, 3Bet Preflop: 11.11, Hands: 32)
MP+1: 55 BB (VPIP: 18.18, PFR: 18.18, 3Bet Preflop: 33.33, Hands: 11)
Hero (MP+2): 99.6 BB
CO: 37.76 BB (VPIP: 30.77, PFR: 7.69, 3Bet Preflop: 25.00, Hands: 26)
BTN: 13.76 BB (VPIP: 40.63, PFR: 15.63, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 32)
SB: 87.56 BB (VPIP: 12.90, PFR: 9.68, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 32)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) MP+1 has Q♥ J♠

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has 3♣ 3♥

fold, UTG+1 calls 1 BB, fold, MP+1 raises to 5 BB, Hero calls 5 BB, fold, fold, fold, BB calls 4 BB, UTG+1 calls 4 BB

Flop: (20.4 BB, 4 players) K♠ 3♠ T♣
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, MP+1 bets 19.4 BB, Hero raises to 38.8 BB, fold, fold, MP+1 raises to 50 BB and is all-in, Hero calls 11.2 BB

Turn: (120.4 BB, 2 players) T♥

River: (120.4 BB, 2 players) 4♦

MP+1 shows Q♥ J♠ (One Pair, Tens)
(Pre 50%, Flop 28%, Turn 0%)
Hero wins 114.4 BB


Reply
Quote
6 replies
Sunrise1912
Joined: 24.11.2009

Not sure what your point is. Be happy villian doesnt play optimally - this allows you to actually win money. If everybody was solid - you wouldnt be winning money.

Hand is standard - even for the villian who only had 50 BB and already put 25 when you raised him. So, he has ez call to your shove as well due to pot odds.


Reply
Quote
Moderator
SDK1987
Joined: 12.11.2008

It's indeed tricky to go broke with a draw, but that's only nice for you if you hit a set like now. Normal I would just shove on his big Cbet. I don't think a min raise or other raise size make any difference and a min raise looks extreme strong with in mind you are committed any way.

Cheers,
SDK1987


Reply
Quote
srichards
Joined: 26.11.2012

Originally posted by Sunrise1912
Not sure what your point is. Be happy villian doesnt play optimally - this allows you to actually win money. If everybody was solid - you wouldnt be winning money.

The only point was to teach others at this forum who may not know the perils of shoving with a draw. It is a common mistake that I notice when playing. I do not want to see my PokerStrategy friends making this mistake. Also, you are absolutely right. If everybody was solid, I wouldn't be winning money.


Reply
Quote
srichards
Joined: 26.11.2012

Originally posted by SDK1987
It's indeed tricky to go broke with a draw, but that's only nice for you if you hit a set like now. Normal I would just shove on his big Cbet. I don't think a min raise or other raise size make any difference and a min raise looks extreme strong with in mind you are committed any way.

Cheers,
SDK1987

This is a common turmoil with me. Should I min raise or should I shove my strong hand? I hate for Villain to fold. But, I want to maximize this hand. Min raise or shove continues to puzzle me. Maybe, in 5 to 10 years I may solve this perplexing problem.:f_confused:


Reply
Quote
drinkmorewater
Joined: 26.09.2019

with the newly acquired knowledge from todays poker news and simulations i can say with some confidence the min check-raise proposition will not happen, since the option to acquire all the chips with a river shove has made itself known.


Reply
Quote
vengeance77
Joined: 18.04.2010

Fold PRF;)


Reply
Quote